Matt H Posted September 1, 2008 Share Posted September 1, 2008 yes they do - there is a list of people that will probably never be released from jail eg hindley, sutcliffe Both jailed before i was born... I'm refering to modern punishment Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lexsum Posted September 1, 2008 Share Posted September 1, 2008 well it is difficult to say as they are in jail and subject to parole board approval eventually eg harold shipman (had he not topped himself may never have been released, ditto fred west), rose west may never be released. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chewie Posted September 1, 2008 Share Posted September 1, 2008 Pah, that's nothing. The people on the front pages of our newspapers and BBC news pages for the last week were clients of ours. We fitted their house out with IT stuff and supplied their business (ULVA). http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/shropshire/7591523.stm Seems a bit extreme burning the house down to avoid paying your invoice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DJButler Posted September 1, 2008 Share Posted September 1, 2008 _"many illegal guns came from legit owners". ie stolen. it is amazing how many careless owners of guns have them stolen and then they turn up in serious cases. i was involved in a real bad one 2 years back - 1 killed & 1 nearly killed by shotgun. if the legit owner never had it in the first place, the illegit guys would not have had it. so it follows:- ban all the guns (air guns included, i would even say replicas too) and allow those who want to shoot to do it in special clubs if they really have to - where the guns and ammo can not be removed. You have of course evidence to support that statement, the official police figures say different, if you dont believe me look em up yourself. Legally held firearms are almost never used in crime and it's always been so. Why bother to steal a gun when you can buy one cheaply in most cities in this country, former eastern block countries are full of guns that are regularly smuggled into the UK, ammunition is expensive or so i have been told. Gunphobia is normally associated with incorrect reporting by the media and not fact. There is of course an argument that says if we were all allowed firearms then they would rarely be used , look at the crime stats for the USA, the few states where anyone over 18 can have a gun have zero gun crime, those with the tightest control have the greatest problems. It has been proven beyond all doubt that people are less likely to threaten the use of a gun on persons who may also be armed. Any State in which only the police have guns is a police state. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lexsum Posted September 1, 2008 Share Posted September 1, 2008 You have of course evidence to support that statement, the official police figures say different, if you dont believe me look em up yourself. Legally held firearms are almost never used in crime and it's always been so. Why bother to steal a gun when you can buy one cheaply in most cities in this country, former eastern block countries are full of guns that are regularly smuggled into the UK, ammunition is expensive or so i have been told. Gunphobia is normally associated with incorrect reporting by the media and not fact. There is of course an argument that says if we were all allowed firearms then they would rarely be used , look at the crime stats for the USA, the few states where anyone over 18 can have a gun have zero gun crime, those with the tightest control have the greatest problems. It has been proven beyond all doubt that people are less likely to threaten the use of a gun on persons who may also be armed. Any State in which only the police have guns is a police state. hard to believe you cite the US as an example of a gun utopia. at the end of the day no one in the UK needs a gun in reality. the dead man in my case kind of speaks for himself (or not.) figures or not there is no denying he is dead as a result of a former legit gun being used in a crime. there is no way out of it or clever answer i'm afraid. also the dead baby in todays news would be alive if the house did not have an air weapon. http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/west_midlands/7592608.stm but then why should we stop people buying these unnecessary items! further the police only have guns while we allow them to - even then they do not patrol woth them and only deploy them in response to gun incidents/terror incidents. (the airports being a sad exception.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DJButler Posted September 1, 2008 Share Posted September 1, 2008 hard to believe you cite the US as an example of a gun utopia. at the end of the day no one in the UK needs a gun in reality. the dead man in my case kind of speaks for himself (or not.) figures or not there is no denying he is dead as a result of a former legit gun being used in a crime. there is no way out of it or clever answer i'm afraid. also the dead baby in todays news would be alive if the house did not have an air weapon. http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/west_midlands/7592608.stm but then why should we stop people buying these unnecessary items! "further the police only have guns while we allow them to" - even then they "do not patrol woth them " (ARVs ?)and only deploy them in response to gun incidents/terror incidents. (the airports being a sad exception.) Im guessing you don't hold a FAC, i don't think i'd take driving advice from a non driver, maybe that's a bit frivolous but no more so than saying a country with so many guns as the USA is a bad example, every expert uses the US as the "prime example". Are you really so naive as to imagine the public could have any influence on whether or not the police are armed.:) We obviously hold very different views on several subjects and are never likely to agree so in order not to bore others to death (slower than shooting them) it is end of argument from me. I agree to disagree!! Even though i disagree with what you say i am prepared to pick up my musket to defend your right to your opinion:innocent: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lexsum Posted September 1, 2008 Share Posted September 1, 2008 fair enough. so my last points: i don't need a gun licence but have gun experience at gun clubs. (the only place for them!) being able to shoot a gun is not a very high standard to set or place to judge from. the US has the highest bodycount from gun crime so is a prime example of the failure of a lack of gun control. here are the stats that contradict your point on the US open ownership policy (http://www.reuters.com/article/pressRelease/idUS251399+24-Apr-2008+PRN20080424) they are from 2005: "States with the Five HIGHEST Per Capita Gun Death Rates Louisiana--Rank: 1; Household Gun Ownership: 45.6 percent; Gun Death Rate: 19.04 per 100,000. Alaska--Rank: 2; Household Gun Ownership: 60.6 percent; Gun Death Rate: 17.49 per 100,000. Montana--Rank: 3; Household Gun Ownership: 61.4 percent; Gun Death Rate: 17.22 per 100,000. Tennessee--Rank: 4; Household Gun Ownership: 46.4 percent; Gun Death Rate: 16.39 per 100,000. Alabama--Rank: 5; Household Gun Ownership: 57.2 percent; Gun Death Rate: 16.18 per 100,000. States with the Five LOWEST Per Capita Gun Death Rates Hawaii--Rank: 50; Household Gun Ownership: 9.7 percent; Gun Death Rate: 2.20 per 100,000. Massachusetts--Rank: 49; Household Gun Ownership: 12.8 percent; Gun Death Rate: 3.48 per 100,000. Rhode Island--Rank: 48; Household Gun Ownership: 13.3 percent; Gun Death Rate: 3.63 per 100,000. New Jersey--Rank: 47; Household Gun Ownership: 11.3 percent; Gun Death Rate: 4.99 per 100,000. New York--Rank: 46; Household Gun Ownership: 18.1 percent; Gun Death Rate: 5.28 per 100,000." Put simply the higher gun ownership the higher gun death count! Not rocket science here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DJButler Posted September 1, 2008 Share Posted September 1, 2008 http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=118x2269 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Posted September 1, 2008 Share Posted September 1, 2008 So it's those dodgy internet over the mains adaptors, not Rupert and some cans of petrol, is it? It's a fair cop guv! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Wilson Posted September 1, 2008 Share Posted September 1, 2008 I am in total support of DJButler. Without a gun my livestock would be under threat. I fully endorse his views, something, as a townie 10 years ago, I might have thought twice about. Legally held firearms are in a minority in gun crime, punish the wrongdoer, do not try to use misguided law changes to defer from correct punishment and enforcement. The criminal classes will always bear arms, whatever the legislation against legal gun ownership, their armoury is already full to bursting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lbm Posted September 2, 2008 Share Posted September 2, 2008 fair enough. so my last points: i don't need a gun licence but have gun experience at gun clubs. (the only place for them!) being able to shoot a gun is not a very high standard to set or place to judge from. the US has the highest bodycount from gun crime so is a prime example of the failure of a lack of gun control. here are the stats that contradict your point on the US open ownership policy (http://www.reuters.com/article/pressRelease/idUS251399+24-Apr-2008+PRN20080424) they are from 2005: "States with the Five HIGHEST Per Capita Gun Death Rates Louisiana--Rank: 1; Household Gun Ownership: 45.6 percent; Gun Death Rate: 19.04 per 100,000. Alaska--Rank: 2; Household Gun Ownership: 60.6 percent; Gun Death Rate: 17.49 per 100,000. Montana--Rank: 3; Household Gun Ownership: 61.4 percent; Gun Death Rate: 17.22 per 100,000. Tennessee--Rank: 4; Household Gun Ownership: 46.4 percent; Gun Death Rate: 16.39 per 100,000. Alabama--Rank: 5; Household Gun Ownership: 57.2 percent; Gun Death Rate: 16.18 per 100,000. States with the Five LOWEST Per Capita Gun Death Rates Hawaii--Rank: 50; Household Gun Ownership: 9.7 percent; Gun Death Rate: 2.20 per 100,000. Massachusetts--Rank: 49; Household Gun Ownership: 12.8 percent; Gun Death Rate: 3.48 per 100,000. Rhode Island--Rank: 48; Household Gun Ownership: 13.3 percent; Gun Death Rate: 3.63 per 100,000. New Jersey--Rank: 47; Household Gun Ownership: 11.3 percent; Gun Death Rate: 4.99 per 100,000. New York--Rank: 46; Household Gun Ownership: 18.1 percent; Gun Death Rate: 5.28 per 100,000." Put simply the higher gun ownership the higher gun death count! Not rocket science here. http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=118x2269 Fair enough gentlemen Some more "quick facts" about Maine. http://quickfacts.census.gov/qfd/states/23000.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DJButler Posted September 2, 2008 Share Posted September 2, 2008 Not even a suggestion that the 96.7% figure has anything to do with the low crime rate, good old PC wins again.:):) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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