Gaz6002 Posted August 19, 2008 Share Posted August 19, 2008 This is one of the more interesting articles I've read about electricity being the replacement for oil. Mr Agassi seems to have his model so well organised, funded and underway that it's almost silly to ignore this radical shift towards electricity. Combined with reading more and more recently about Telsa, the American electic car firm who are currently building a new factory to builld the worlds first profit-making electric cars and a picture of the future is being drawn. Soon enough our internal combustion engines will belong in a museum and will be a rare sight on the road. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tDR Posted August 19, 2008 Share Posted August 19, 2008 Interesting stuff and a convincing approach doing mobile network style contracts to provide the cars heavily discounted or for free in return for having customers regularly paying for the electricity from them on a monthly or pay as you go basis. That's what's needed though - just now our government is shafting us whilst offering no alternative. That kind of infrastructure needs to be in place to support the electric car before they start taxing us off the road through road fund and fuel duties... Cheers, Brian. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gaz6002 Posted August 19, 2008 Author Share Posted August 19, 2008 Interesting stuff and a convincing approach doing mobile network style contracts to provide the cars heavily discounted or for free in return for having customers regularly paying for the electricity from them on a monthly or pay as you go basis. That's what's needed though - just now our government is shafting us whilst offering no alternative. That kind of infrastructure needs to be in place to support the electric car before they start taxing us off the road through road fund and fuel duties... Cheers, Brian. Absolutely, it's very refreshing to see that there are people out there who are trying to make a difference to the situation we're all in right now, rather than just blindly trying to save the "environment" by hiking up taxes like money grows on trees. The cars being suggested are 0% emmisions. The Danish system suggested using wind power means that ultimately the carbon footprint for cars could be reduced to zero. As the writer suggests, the concept sells itself. I wonder what this will mean for the oil producing nations that are currently hugely wealthy and to some extent invincible? If nations don't need oil any more, where will all that money go? Food and aid for less developed nations? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ivan Posted August 19, 2008 Share Posted August 19, 2008 A fascinating read, thanks. I hope it all comes to fruition too. I for one would love to see our dependance on oil completely removed - even if it does mean losing the Supra. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gaz6002 Posted August 19, 2008 Author Share Posted August 19, 2008 A fascinating read, thanks. I hope it all comes to fruition too. I for one would love to see our dependance on oil completely removed - even if it does mean losing the Supra. Consider this: there is an electric car called the Lightning that was presented at the London Motorshow. It had electric motors, one in each wheel and does 60mph in 4 seconds. I'd have thought with a little more R&D and it will be available to retro-fit to cars. The Supra could become a timeless shape yet Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bolarbag Posted August 19, 2008 Share Posted August 19, 2008 I like the concept, one that I thought about in a round about way before, but how can we be guaranteed that the taxes won't just be lumped onto the electricity that we pay to charge the batteries? Surely the cars would be overall lighter if they only depended on Batteries, and there would be scope for performance battery powered cars Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gaz6002 Posted August 19, 2008 Author Share Posted August 19, 2008 I like the concept, one that I thought about in a round about way before, but how can we be guaranteed that the taxes won't just be lumped onto the electricity that we pay to charge the batteries? The idea is to subscribe to a setup so you can just "fill up" anywhere, including your home. The voltage available at your home means you'll only be able to do a slow charge, say around 14 hours but a filling station will actually swap out the battery if you don't have time to wait. Surely the cars would be overall lighter if they only depended on Batteries, and there would be scope for performance battery powered cars In principle, although technology isn't there just yet. The Telsa roadster is based on the Elise but works out to be 350kg heavier, even using CF panels to try and keep weight down. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bolarbag Posted August 19, 2008 Share Posted August 19, 2008 So what difference does it make to our pockets then none? As we have a privatised Energy industry the Government will just tax them, who will then tax us Lets not kid ourselves, it might change the world but for the worse, I actually like the concept but our government somehow thinks it can live off its own and still be a superpower with no industry and no real means of making money, we have barely enough 'electricity' to sustain ourselves or the means to make it, an alternative means of transport and different way of life is what we need Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gaz6002 Posted August 19, 2008 Author Share Posted August 19, 2008 So what difference does it make to our pockets then none? As we have a privatised Energy industry the Government will just tax them, who will then tax us Lets not kid ourselves, it might change the world but for the worse, I actually like the concept but our government somehow thinks it can live off its own and still be a superpower with no industry and no real means of making money, we have barely enough 'electricity' to sustain ourselves or the means to make it, an alternative means of transport and different way of life is what we need Did you read the whole article? Your statements are addressed in it. How can moving away from a reliability on oil make the world worse? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snooze Posted August 19, 2008 Share Posted August 19, 2008 The Danish system suggested using wind power means that ultimately the carbon footprint for cars could be reduced to zero. ....or at least it would if the carbon footprint for wind power was really zero, and not the horrific waste of energy and effort that it is. Tidal and nuclear power FTW! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gaz6002 Posted August 19, 2008 Author Share Posted August 19, 2008 ....or at least it would if the carbon footprint for wind power was really zero, and not the horrific waste of energy and effort that it is. Tidal and nuclear power FTW! That's actually the point, using all the power that is wasted using wind power as we currently do to power the cars. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snooze Posted August 19, 2008 Share Posted August 19, 2008 That's actually the point, using all the power that is wasted using wind power as we currently do to power the cars. No - I was referring to the fact that trying to harness wind to generate power is an awful idea. The manufacturing process alone for the windmills uses up energy which takes something like 8 years of consistent and faultless use to recuperate. Wind power and wind farming is a huge scam just designed to line the pockets of big industry powers and the politicians' backhanders that have helped push it all through..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thorin Posted August 19, 2008 Share Posted August 19, 2008 Take every single car on the road today away... and it wouldn't make a bit of difference. It's not the cars. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snooze Posted August 19, 2008 Share Posted August 19, 2008 Take every single car on the road today away... and it wouldn't make a bit of difference. It's not the cars. You're referring to global warming/ecological stuff I take it? Yeah - you might be right - but I don't believe that ever had anything to do with it anyway - and it doesn't have anything to do with electric cars either.... It's all about the money. The government (and the associated large industry players) would LOVE to move away from oil reliance, purely to save money (and make more $$$$ in profits). The environment thing is just a way of making it palatable for us sheep!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thorin Posted August 19, 2008 Share Posted August 19, 2008 You're referring to global warming/ecological stuff I take it? Yeah - you might be right - but I don't believe that ever had anything to do with it anyway - and it doesn't have anything to do with electric cars either.... Yeah... and what's more, do you think all those nice heavy metals and chemicals in all the batteries is better for the environment than burning oil? I'd bet it's not, and that actual overall environmental impact would be worse if we were all driving electric cars. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snooze Posted August 19, 2008 Share Posted August 19, 2008 Exactly. And all our money (and the Israeli money for Better World) will go to a nice American (and/or Israeli) battery manufacturer and power generator rather than a middle-eastern oil company (thus also removing all that need for an expensive military campaign and media cover-up!) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gaz6002 Posted August 19, 2008 Author Share Posted August 19, 2008 No - I was referring to the fact that trying to harness wind to generate power is an awful idea. The manufacturing process alone for the windmills uses up energy which takes something like 8 years of consistent and faultless use to recuperate. Wind power and wind farming is a huge scam just designed to line the pockets of big industry powers and the politicians' backhanders that have helped push it all through..... Ah OK I see where you've gone with that... well it was just an example of technology that the Danish are actually using to kick this project off. I've got no idea about the theories you suggest, all this big red button stuff amuses me though Take every single car on the road today away... and it wouldn't make a bit of difference. It's not the cars. The angle I've been looking at this from is certainly not to do with removal of all cars! That would make me a hypocrite of the highest order. Switching away from oil is the idea, not getting rid of cars. So you think that the batteries will cause more harm to the environment than an internal combustion engine will over the course of its life? Can you back that up with fact? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ivan Posted August 19, 2008 Share Posted August 19, 2008 Take every single car on the road today away... and it wouldn't make a bit of difference. It's not the cars. I think you may have missed the point Michael. The whole idea is to remove the dependancy on the oil industry. They're just starting with the cars. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thorin Posted August 20, 2008 Share Posted August 20, 2008 Unless everyone just stopped driving cars full stop, you're removing the dependency on one thing only to replace it with another. And yes I think batteries would cause more harm to the environment if we were all to switch to driving electric cars. Lots of really nasty chemicals and batteries only have a finite life time, you need to dispose them somehow, that further adds to the cost. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gaz6002 Posted August 20, 2008 Author Share Posted August 20, 2008 Unless everyone just stopped driving cars full stop, you're removing the dependency on one thing only to replace it with another. But when electricity is abound and oil is going to run out, isn't that a good way of shifting the pattern of economic downturn with regards to rising oil prices? If the electricity could be created economically then there is no reason for the price to rise as dramatically as the price of oil has recently. And yes I think batteries would cause more harm to the environment if we were all to switch to driving electric cars. Lots of really nasty chemicals and batteries only have a finite life time, you need to dispose them somehow, that further adds to the cost. It seems according to this link that the lithium ion batteries are recycleable and a lot of work has gone into making centres for doing just that. If the batteries were only available through one source and said source controlled the recycling of them then I can't see how it would be more harmful to the environment than using an internal combustion engine. I mean they chose to fit the same kinds of batteries to several million laptops without worrying about disposal so what's different here? Again we come back to the concept of the mobile phone network subscription techniques - renting the battery from one subsidised firm who retain ownership during the lifecycle of the unit - which is what really makes this idea viable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gaz Walker Posted August 20, 2008 Share Posted August 20, 2008 Fascinating article which I read in detail last night. Lots of arguments can be made about oil dependancy, climate change/cycle, generating enough power to cope with the extra demand (Nuclear?), the battery itself and the problems that brings. Its a proper concept and its definitely a start but theres an awful lot of work and research still to be done. Cars would be a start, air travel next. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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