bigcol Posted August 8, 2008 Share Posted August 8, 2008 and this just fills me full of confidence, put it one way im going to be as far away from London in 2012 as possible, i have a funny feeling that 2012 will make 911 look like a firework display:( http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/london/7483598.stm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gerry Posted August 8, 2008 Share Posted August 8, 2008 Absolutely hats off to the Chinese - they Rock when it comes to Olympic ceremonies! Let's face it - 2012... we'll be hard pressed if we can afford to float a duck on a pond with a sparkler up its a$$ in comparison to that! (I bet we will have spent a shed load more than 20Bn by the time we get there... +VAT lol - and it will be nowhere near as cool!). And just think £20bn goes a helluva lot further in China than it does here!! (and yes 20Bill was supposed to be the relocating of the people displaced by the stadium building + surrounding support infrastructure, increased security [the whole shebang] as far as has been reported) Granted, what a perceived waste of cash - but it's their cash, they wanted a showcase to try and make the world sit up and think differently about them, I think they have done a sterling job of trying to mend international relations and at least on the surface of things a lot of political woes have been at least improved/put on back burners. Didn't see the whole thing, just the short version but I thought it was brill - especially the single fireworks working there way through the city towards the stadium. 20bn, is a huge amount of money, but only about a quid a head for everyone that watches it on TV worldwide. I got into sport about 30 years to late, but I would have given my left nut (or right) to be picked to represent my Country there. I know it's not very "2008" to be proud to represent the place you were born, but I bet no athlete there wouldn't swap his/her place for a big bunch of money. This ones especially good for me as a mate I've trained with for about ten years has been selected (Sam Wheale, Pentathlete) I fear he's going to get his butt kicked though Sadly, fencing and pentathlon arn't on the TV Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garethr Posted August 8, 2008 Share Posted August 8, 2008 Granted, what a perceived waste of cash - but it's their cash, they wanted a showcase to try and make the world sit up and think differently about them, I think they have done a sterling job of trying to mend international relations and at least on the surface of things a lot of political woes have been at least improved/put on back burners. I refer you to Berlin in 1936...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sdavies Posted August 8, 2008 Share Posted August 8, 2008 I refer you to Berlin in 1936...... I also refer you to Godwin's Law People will always be suspicious and see patterns, as so we should etc. but I fail to see any comparison in all reality. Edit: Actually on thinking about it, I can see where you drew those comparisons, but still - fairly tenuous. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garethr Posted August 8, 2008 Share Posted August 8, 2008 I also refer you to Godwin's Law People will always be suspicious and see patterns, as so we should etc. but I fail to see any comparison in all reality. Edit: Actually on thinking about it, I can see where you drew those comparisons, but still - fairly tenuous.My point is simply that the Olympics has been "political" for at least 72 years. Do you think the UK government is wasting billions of our taxes because they like to watch people running, jumping, and throwing things? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soop Dogg Posted August 8, 2008 Share Posted August 8, 2008 £20bn??? Well, at least it was entertaining - or at least more entertaining than throwing it at a failed bank with a screwed up idea of a business plan.... Who are the real mugs? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
imi Posted August 8, 2008 Share Posted August 8, 2008 From the BBC: The choreographed show took seven years to plan, and costs are estimated to have hit a record-breaking $40bn (£20bn). £20bn! Twenty million or two hundred million would have been bad enough but twenty BILLION. That's disgusting. That kind of money could do some real good but no, they've spent it on three hours of $#@!e. I'm now even more determined not to watch a single second of the games. Atleast they didnt invade a country and kill innocent people.....(not yet anyway) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sdavies Posted August 9, 2008 Share Posted August 9, 2008 My point is simply that the Olympics has been "political" for at least 72 years. Do you think the UK government is wasting billions of our taxes because they like to watch people running, jumping, and throwing things? Well I kind of concur, the Olympics is a wonderfully well exploited global platform for flexing your wealth/strength at folk under the banner of agnostic politically neutral/friendly competition, and showing who can win the most shinies is a bonus! Saying that mind, tread with trepidation before taking the Olympics to task as you do not want to find yourself in the position of running Olympic athletes down as political pawns - I wouldn't want to take their achievements away from them regardless of *higher* political motives; well I definitely wouldn't want to say anything derogatory about the efforts of the Korean Tae Kwon Do squad to their faces at least! I think the Berlin comparison, although pertinent in some respects is an over exaggerated negative example is all A more palatable but slightly lesser comparison [but hopefully does not broach Godwin's law] - the bleeding farce of the Eurovision Song contest - hahaha - it aint about Singing/Talent . As for the government blowing our wad... ooer, they seem to do it for whatever reason is crossing their tiny minds for which I cannot yet find a sound logical political reasoning (Not my place as a tax payer and voter I guess). Then again, when has politics been rational or logical? The day it was announced we had won the Olympic bid, my heart kinda sank as 1. I knew we would somehow f*** it up, and 2. I knew it would be an economic b@lls up of BIBLICAL FAIL proportions (not necessarily a pessimistic view, simply going on how the government is running the country in general, let alone a massive undertaking such as the Olympics). I thought that the 20Billion argument was kinda moot in the amount of cash our own government throws away after stuff, and our very own Olympic event will be hard pressed to stay within Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AJI Posted August 9, 2008 Share Posted August 9, 2008 Well I thought the opening ceromony was excellent. It showed China's ability to stand in the modern world. Will we do better in 2012... I think not. I thought the BBC's total biassed propogander commentary against China was disgusting. I have just come back from spending 3 months in China and it is nothing like what the western couintries say it is........ in terms of oppression of its people, human rights etc. If anything I would say people over there are MORE free to do what they want. There are no stupid laws like 'don't let your bin over flow by a millimetre or we will fine you £100' type of thing. If you look at the full list of what human rights should be then take a good look at the UK at the moment... how free are we ? I am planning to go back to China as soon as possible.... having experienced what it is like out there and comparing it to the current run down state of britain... I think it is an easy choice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevie_b Posted August 9, 2008 Share Posted August 9, 2008 £20bn does seem like a lot of money, but I really don't know what the "going rate" should be. It's like when banks tell you they look after £70bn worth of assets: sounds nice, but I don't know whether that's big or small in the scheme of things. The concerns will melt away into a dreamy mist as soon as Victoria Pendleton gets on her bike to win us a medal! http://www.victoriapendleton.co.uk/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedM Posted August 9, 2008 Author Share Posted August 9, 2008 I thought the BBC's total biassed propogander commentary against China was disgusting. I have just come back from spending 3 months in China and it is nothing like what the western couintries say it is........ in terms of oppression of its people, human rights etc. Censorship? Tibet?? Killing your own citizens??? Prison without trial for political dissent???? The concerns will melt away into a dreamy mist as soon as Victoria Pendleton gets on her bike to win us a medal! http://www.victoriapendleton.co.uk/ Oh crap! I forgot about her. Maybe I'll watch just a bit of the games. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swampy442 Posted August 9, 2008 Share Posted August 9, 2008 With the problems that China has, that 20 billion could have done alot of good. They should have bucked the trend of huge opening ceremonies and just had a simple low key affair with a singer or a parade. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RiceRocket Posted August 9, 2008 Share Posted August 9, 2008 20bn, is a huge amount of money, but only about a quid a head for everyone that watches it on TV worldwide. I think you've overestimated the world population. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ivan Posted August 9, 2008 Share Posted August 9, 2008 £20bn does seem like a lot of money, but I really don't know what the "going rate" should be. It's like when banks tell you they look after £70bn worth of assets: sounds nice, but I don't know whether that's big or small in the scheme of things. The concerns will melt away into a dreamy mist as soon as Victoria Pendleton gets on her bike to win us a medal! http://www.victoriapendleton.co.uk/ A fine looking filly indeed. I might just have to watch the cycling then. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevie_b Posted August 9, 2008 Share Posted August 9, 2008 Censorship? Killing your own citizens??? Prison without trial for political dissent???? Yes, but what about China though? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gerry Posted August 9, 2008 Share Posted August 9, 2008 I think you've overestimated the world population. Ok... I admit I got carried away. i'll watch it lots to make up though Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AJI Posted August 9, 2008 Share Posted August 9, 2008 Censorship? Tibet?? Killing your own citizens??? Prison without trial for political dissent???? Censorship ..... the chinese generally have a different view on what constitutes 'news'. Here in the UK it is anything that includes disaster, hardship, war, death, basically anything bad news that will draw in the public that way. How many news items on our UK news is about good things that happen ?? It is maybe a single item that lasts for a single minute at the end of the news program. In China, news is more business orientated, and most news about their own country. Is this censorship ? No, it is just the difference of culture. Censorship of things like the internet..... well I think the Chinese government have a right to not allow things like hard core porn and heavily misguided western views of the way China is run from entering the population. Tree hugger organisations like the one going on in the UK at the moment over the power station... it is these types of people that shout out about censorship of China and how these people do not have a way of preaching their views to the Chinese people. Tibet.... why is the west wanting Tibet to be so called 'free' ? Tibet as a country would fall apart if not under China's wing. There is also another reason for why there is a government voice over the tibet situation.... that is because NATO has a base in that country. It is nicely situated near Russia and China. And to find a similarity.... it is like China telling us to free Northern Ireland. What is it to do with China?.... well what is Tibet to do with us? Killing your own citizens... they do have the death penalty yes... and so do the USA, so did the UK until the 60's. It is a great deterent in preventing serious crime, and where the criminals do not get more rights than the victims... as found here in the UK at the moment. The last point, about political decent... I do not have a good argument against this one. But again, comparing to our own country as an example, we are no longer allowed to protest outside parliment. This will result in arrest. We are no longer allowed to protest about things like fuel as it is now considered terroism. So there are many areas where the Chinese would look at our country and ask are you as free as you think you are? I fully know China is not a perfect country... it is developing at a fast rate and I think a lot of the negativity about this country at the moment is western fears of China becoming more powerful than the west. As to not sound totally pro China, for balance I do think with all its wealth the chinese government could do more for its own people. There is a very large gap at the moment between the people who have and the people who have not. When I was there I saw some guys driving Ferraris while others were searching deep into rubbish bins for plastic bottles which they get a small amount of money for recycling. Everybody is entitled to their own views on this, but I think we should not all just go by what our government BBC want us to hear. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedM Posted August 9, 2008 Author Share Posted August 9, 2008 I wasn't thinking of the death penalty when I mentioned killing their own people. I was thinking of Tiananmen Square. What about enforced abortions too? I guess as long as you think the people over their have more freedoms than us because they can overfill their bins then there's nothing to worry about, is there? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
extendor Posted August 9, 2008 Share Posted August 9, 2008 Exciting stuff reading this. I have been to China and do a lot of business with the Chinese in manufacturing. It is certainly a country of great extremes and contrasts and there is a lot of good stuff in what AJI says. Back to the point about the Olympics. The eyes of the world are on China and she has exceeded all expectations. China has come of age and we had better sit up and not underestimate her. There are a lot of People/Countries out there who will have had a huge wake up call this last six months. I fully expect to see China flexing her financial muscles in the next twelve months and we will see an end to cheap manufacturing and its impact on our own economy as prices continue to rise dramatically. The times are a changing and they dont look good. And another thing. We had better be prepared to be shamed by China in 2012. I seem to recall the Head of the Olympics make a decree at the closing ceremony saying that the Games are the best there have ever been. This might be the case for China but ours will most certainly end with a Borat style NOT!!!!!!!!! and a guffaw of laughter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedM Posted August 9, 2008 Author Share Posted August 9, 2008 I fully expect to see China flexing her financial muscles in the next twelve months and we will see an end to cheap manufacturing and its impact on our own economy as prices continue to rise dramatically. The times are a changing and they dont look good. We started doing business with China and were very unimpressed with the results. As the prices have started to rise we've looked at the rising costs of shipping too and are thinking of switching back to supporting UK/EU based industry. We had better be prepared to be shamed by China in 2012. I seem to recall the Head of the Olympics make a decree at the closing ceremony saying that the Games are the best there have ever been. Finished already? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
extendor Posted August 9, 2008 Share Posted August 9, 2008 Knowing how to work with China and the Chinese is the key. Same as any offshore manufacturing. Yes the quality can be suspect but good manufacturing specifications and due dilligence easily overcome that. You cant tell me you have ONLY ever received the very best service/quality/cost from the UK. I am not defending China but we must look beyond the razzamatazz and the glib. You are correct, offshore costs are rising and my feeling is that this is only the beginning. European and domestic manufacturing can be a very attractive option as costs come into parity but the trend is for increasing costs. Clever design is the best tool a company can use to control costs. Sorry for the sloppy writing. It should have been future tense but no doubt you got the idea. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedM Posted August 9, 2008 Author Share Posted August 9, 2008 Knowing how to work with China and the Chinese is the key. Same as any offshore manufacturing. Yes the quality can be suspect but good manufacturing specifications and due dilligence easily overcome that. You cant tell me you have ONLY ever received the very best service/quality/cost from the UK. Obviously we can and do have issues with UK/EU suppliers and manufacturers. The difference is that these problems can be sorted within minutes and delivery can be next day when necessary. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
extendor Posted August 9, 2008 Share Posted August 9, 2008 Obviously we can and do have issues with UK/EU suppliers and manufacturers. The difference is that these problems can be sorted within minutes and delivery can be next day when necessary. Sorry to go off topic but its Saturday early evening I am at work. My Chinese factories are online with Skype and GoTo Meeting. I can speak to them 24hours a day. We see work on each others PC terminals and do business across the timelines that are impossible in GB. I bet not one single UK manufacturer you use is contactable right now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedM Posted August 9, 2008 Author Share Posted August 9, 2008 Sorry to go off topic but its Saturday early evening I am at work. My Chinese factories are online with Skype and GoTo Meeting. I can speak to them 24hours a day. We see work on each others PC terminals and do business across the timelines that are impossible in GB. I bet not one single UK manufacturer you use is contactable right now. ..and at 18:18 on a Saturday I'm not contactable either. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
extendor Posted August 9, 2008 Share Posted August 9, 2008 lol. I wish I was at home as well but sometimes things need your attention. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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