Single turbo discussion (Split from GB thread)

[TRD DAN]

are these kits mentioned same as phr single kit ie all bolts straight on, and standard ecu and fuelling is ok ??

[Terminator]

As others have said, there are many other things to consider and budget for, before getting a single around the level of a BLT67.

 

You also need to budget for supporting modifications, a fuel system, a FMIC system, probably and new or uprated radiator, an oil cooling system, a breather system, engine management, mapping, labour costs.

 

Go for the best you can afford. Kits from Japan are designed around RHD cars, USA kits around LHD, this can make a huge difference to fitting cost. We have a steering column and rack mechanism right where the down pipe and turbo charge to inter cooler need to be.

 

If you have any weak points in the engine bay, going single will make them an issue very quickly.

Edited August 3, 2008 by Terminator (see edit history)

[bolarbag]

If you are bpu and you want the same type of performance in terms of response, reliability and power(whipping a great big tubby aint always gonna guarantee ya more power across the rev range) then you can forget T67dbb

 

Without Cams and full overhaul of your valvetrain(Mileage dependant) a T67 would be pointless, and as already mentioned would show up any wear and tear from your engine very quickly

 

If you are doing the conversion yourself - it is possible as long as you know how turbo engines work and do enough research - then budget at least 8K - thats assuming your exhaust, IC, and cooling areas are up to the job

 

When the conversion is done, brakes and suspension upgrades and tweaks are a must, whats the point of all that power if you cant lay it down - or stop;)

 

AEM is a minimum imho, and tbh, unless you are insane or ill informed its the only ecu I'd go for as its both vfm and has the potential, this is coming from someone who bought one, then sold it at a heavy loss - Motec is good but verrrrrrry expensive!

[dandan]

If you are bpu and you want the same type of performance in terms of response, reliability and power..... then you can forget T67dbb

 

Is that aimed at someone in particular or are you randomly jibbering on in someone else's thread?

 

Without Cams and full overhaul of your valvetrain(Mileage dependant) a T67 would be pointless, and as already mentioned would show up any wear and tear from your engine very quickly

 

Please quantify your idea of a "full overhaul" and "pointless" and perhaps seen as you like pointing out obvious crap you might want to say something about clutches, fuel pumps, injectors, sparkplugs, cooling, compression test, leakdown test and TC's as well. Would a 74mm turbo be any more pointless or a PHRS3 or how about a 4088 or even a 4088R. Do you believe for some reason that a 67mm turbo is more "pointless" than other turbos...ffs.

 

AEM is a minimum imho, and tbh, unless you are insane or ill informed its the only ecu I'd go for as its both vfm and has the potential, this is coming from someone who bought one, then sold it at a heavy loss - Motec is good but verrrrrrry expensive!

 

Potential for what?

 

I'd like to see you argue the toss on that one with Ian C. .....Ian you are clearly insane and ill informed (by someone!!)

 

Why are you posting all this in this thread anyway. There are countless threads on the forum about single turbo upgrades - this needn't be a copy and paste of everything from those threads. This guy posted up about single kits - not cams, not ecu's, not reliability....it was an enquiry related to a potential group buy....not a "Please tell me what I need to do to have a decent single equipped car".

Edited August 4, 2008 by dandan (see edit history)

[bolarbag]

Original Rant By DanDan

 

My input was in reference to this post:

could be intrested ? are these kits mentioned same as phr single kit ie all bolts straight on, and standard ecu and fuelling is ok ??

 

But since your such a f$$$ing expert in the field any input could easily have been bypassed by scrolling by my post

 

T67 - pointless as in there is no point in having such a large tubby if you do not intend to add cams too - your strangling the turbo at the point its supposed to make peak boost - its a great turbo with Cams

 

Our Cars are generally 10years plus now, so full overhaul would include at minimum, Valve Stem Oil Seals, and replacing any lazy valves springs or all if you are going to add cams

 

Would a 74mm turbo be any more pointless or a PHRS3 or how about a 4088 or even a 4088R. Do you believe for some reason that a 67mm turbo is more "pointless" than other turbos...ffs.

 

Yes I do as it happens, unless intended for a Drag application, both a 74 and PHRS3 are pretty pointless and will not give you anywhere near the driveability of a bpu car unless its went through a serious build

Your knowledge on turbos is shown here:) - 4088(Are you serious)?????

4088R's are a good in between GT35R - T67, unfortunately not as reliable it seems from recent reports

 

Potential for what?

 

I'd like to see you argue the toss on that one with Ian C. .....Ian you are clearly insane and ill informed (by someone!!)

 

You want a T67 and associated fueling on an Emanage?? As much as I respect Ian C and his input, by his own admission he is no expert just an ethusiast like the rest of us who happens to have gained a skill in mapping ecu's through trial and error, in particular those of the Greddy Range, it is however a piggyback ecu with limited capabilites whereas the aem is a full standalone

 

Potential as in to have a car run like stock and control fueling(admittedly up to a certain level of tune) and have yourself a good reliable setup(as long as the aem ecu is good to go to begin with)

 

Looking from the perspective if I was sitting here two years ago, I think my post is relevant, its a reminder to what is needed for anyone considering going single, and not all guys have the time or the will to sit through countless threads about Single builds of which all vary in setup and opinion as well as cost

 

Why the f*** would I input otherwise!!???

Edited August 4, 2008 by bolarbag (see edit history)

[gaz1]

My input was in reference to this post:

 

 

But since your such a f$$$ing expert in the field any input could easily have been bypassed by scrolling by my post

 

T67 - pointless as in there is no point in having such a large tubby if you do not intend to add cams too - your strangling the turbo at the point its supposed to make peak boost - its a great turbo with Cams

 

Our Cars are generally 10years plus now, so full overhaul would include at minimum, Valve Stem Oil Seals, and replacing any lazy valves springs or all if you are going to add cams

 

 

 

Yes I do as it happens, unless intended for a Drag application, both a 74 and PHRS3 are pretty pointless and will not give you anywhere near the driveability of a bpu car unless its went through a serious build

Your knowledge on turbos is shown here:) - 4088(Are you serious)?????

4088R's are a good in between GT35R - T67, unfortunately not as reliable it seems from recent reports

 

 

 

You want a T67 and associated fueling on an Emanage?? As much as I respect Ian C and his input, by his own admission he is no expert just an ethusiast like the rest of us who happens to have gained a skill in mapping ecu's through trial and error, in particular those of the Greddy Range, it is however a piggyback ecu with limited capabilites whereas the aem is a full standalone

 

Potential as in to have a car run like stock and control fueling(admittedly up to a certain level of tune) and have yourself a good reliable setup(as long as the aem ecu is good to go to begin with)

 

Looking from the perspective if I was sitting here two years ago, I think my post is relevant, its a reminder to what is needed for anyone considering going single, and not all guys have the time or the will to sit through countless threads about Single builds of which all vary in setup and opinion as well as cost

 

Why the f*** would I input otherwise!!???

[RobSheffield]

From bitter experience i can only agree with Bolarbag.

 

I thought it ought to be possible to build a decent quality single kit up for a lot less than 5k.

 

10k later and, granted iv gone further than most, im still only just about there.

 

Fair play to buy over a load of kits, but try not to confuse the power hungry newbies that the kit is all you need.

[bolarbag]

Cheers guys - notice the trend here, its guys that went through the conversion understand why I posted

 

In a years time you will probably understand too - thats assuming you go ahead with the conversion

 

All I'm trying to do is prevent guys investing 3-4k in a turbo kit thats going to lay in their cupboard up to a year later while they get the rest of the money together for the associated parts and try and make the best out of what they have just bought - exactly why people then come out with statements like Singles arent reliable because they spend countless hours, days and sometimes nights fixing problems that wouldnt have occured if they had catered for them first time around

 

The group buy is a good idea to save money, good luck but just keep in mind the other associated parts - of which there are many

[Gaz6002]

Cheers guys - notice the trend here, its guys that went through the conversion understand why I posted

 

It's very true Mine cost me a significant amount and she's still not 100% there. I won't say it was a waste of money but it's really not something to be taken lightly.

[Ian C]

I might just have to express a view or two here

 

T67 - pointless as in there is no point in having such a large tubby if you do not intend to add cams too - your strangling the turbo at the point its supposed to make peak boost - its a great turbo with Cams

 

Homer ran a T67 with stock cams, and although it choked up a bit above 6000rpm, that "choked up" level would still wipe the floor with a BPU supra as it was over 500bhp still. Where you achieve peak boost depends on the load on the engine, mainly influenced by the gear you are in. In 3rd gear upwards, a T67 DBB will achieve 1.4bar below 5000rpm in all cases and even below 4000rpm in 5th/6th. That's off the top of my head, all those graphs I made ages ago have the exact figures in if anyone is interested. Anyway, that's far from 6000+rpm where stock cams start to slow things down a bit. So I'd say cams are not a necessary prerequisite in this case and certainly don't make a T67 "pointless".

 

Our Cars are generally 10years plus now, so full overhaul would include at minimum, Valve Stem Oil Seals, and replacing any lazy valves springs or all if you are going to add cams

 

If your seals aren't leaking, don't replace them. Why would you? Lazy valve springs? The valves aren't affected by more in-cylinder power. If the rev limit isn't being upped, again, why would you replace them? And what is a lazy valve spring anyway

 

I think that's a couple of inappropriate examples though, as I'm all for the "fix existing problems before any mods" school of thought, otherwise you'll get very frustrated and it'll cost you £££s.

 

You want a T67 and associated fueling on an Emanage?? As much as I respect Ian C and his input, by his own admission he is no expert just an ethusiast like the rest of us who happens to have gained a skill in mapping ecu's through trial and error, in particular those of the Greddy Range, it is however a piggyback ecu with limited capabilites whereas the aem is a full standalone

 

I've been running my single install since TOTB3, on an E-Manage Blue and an E-Manage Ultimate as soon as they came out. On 720cc injectors. I did TOTB3, 4, and 6 in it, a couple of track days, and about 35,000 normal miles, raced a carerra GT, and blah blah etc etc. Basically it just plain works and I love it. There are no misfires, no flat spots, no dodgy bits, no stalling, no cold or hot start issues, it idles fine (cams make it a bit lumpy, good luck removing that with an AEM) etc etc. Thing is, if it was a dog to drive, I'd hate it. That's the sort of person I am Instead I my supra

 

I'm really not sure what further evidence you'd need to know that it's possible to run such a configuration quite happily. I'd also like to know what this mythical "limited capabilities" thing about the EMU actually means? In what way is it more limited?

 

Personally I've never seen a standalone run properly even after x thousand pounds of kit and a couple of years effort and mapping But then that's just my limited experience of them I'm sure.

 

-Ian

[Ian C]

Just to show I'm not being a cock for the sake of it - this post I agree with fully

 

-Ian

 

All I'm trying to do is prevent guys investing 3-4k in a turbo kit thats going to lay in their cupboard up to a year later while they get the rest of the money together for the associated parts and try and make the best out of what they have just bought - exactly why people then come out with statements like Singles arent reliable because they spend countless hours, days and sometimes nights fixing problems that wouldnt have occured if they had catered for them first time around

 

The group buy is a good idea to save money, good luck but just keep in mind the other associated parts - of which there are many

[JamieP]

Im going to be running my T67 dbb on stock cams to start with and if i like it it will stay that way:)

[gaz1]

Im going to be running my T67 dbb on stock cams to start with and if i like it it will stay that way:)

 

you won,t so get them ordered now:p:d

[dandan]

bolarbag - your post just pissed me off due to pure bad timing and the fact that it just states the obvious.

 

I was trying to make a sarcastic post by pointing out why you jumped on a 67DBB in particular being "pointless"....I was interested to know what made it "pointless" vs. any other turbo especially anything bigger or older or laggier. I think you missed the sarcastic bit in view of the fact that you jumped on my 4088 comment......yeah, that is my favourite turbo, best by far for longevity and reliability, that is why it is so expensive, so hard to come by on places like Ebay, and why it is clearly the turbo of choice for all the "Supra tuners" turbo kits

 

I think you would be wrong to steer any potential buyers away from a 67mm turbo (in particular) on the basis of reliability or cam choice......especially on a road car running pump fuel. In my opinion a 67mm would be as large as I would put on any road going car irrespective of cam choice and after driving a few I would probably go a tad smaller.

 

I certainly would not go replacing valve stem seals just for the sake of it unless they seemed to be leaking.

 

I am not going to get into some lame ass keyboard argument crap - I never have on here as it always seems to pan out to be a total waste of time. I certainly will not reply to your dig about turbo knowledge or whatever it was...suffice to say you stick with what you know and have done and I am sure you will do fine. I will do the same. This thread started out about a potential group buy for turbo kits not a general discussion on engine maintainence. Your stating the obvious just wound me up but then I guess any new guys could benefit from a bit of that so...carry on, I guess if it saves someone some hassle and money then that is good. 1000 apologies for upsetting you, I will breeze by any future obvious comments of yours as you rightly suggest.

Edited August 4, 2008 by dandan (see edit history)

[bolarbag]

I've been running my single install since TOTB3, on an E-Manage Blue and an E-Manage Ultimate as soon as they came out. On 720cc injectors. I did TOTB3, 4, and 6 in it, a couple of track days, and about 35,000 normal miles, raced a carerra GT, and blah blah etc etc. Basically it just plain works and I love it. There are no misfires, no flat spots, no dodgy bits, no stalling, no cold or hot start issues, it idles fine (cams make it a bit lumpy, good luck removing that with an AEM) etc etc. Thing is, if it was a dog to drive, I'd hate it. That's the sort of person I am Instead I my supra

 

Out of interest whats your injector duty on 720CC injectors?

 

Also you have the ability and confidence to continously tweak your map whereas most dont, how long have you spent on said map I can bet it was not just one mapping session never to be connected to the laptop again

 

1.4bar below 5000rpm in all cases and even below 4000rpm in 5th/6th.

 

Although I agree there would be more power than stock here, I'd prefer my powerband to be a bit more than 1500K rpm, again, with a T67 any suspension issues here are going to be shown up pretty quickly with traction issues

 

If your seals aren't leaking, don't replace them. Why would you?

 

unless your cars been sitting sorn for the last few years or you use the car very rarely the cars mileages are going to be at the stage where things are going to start going wrong, why replace cam cover seals, bolt washers, cams, camshaft oil seals when you have to replace them all again when its time to do the valve stem oil seals, of which the urgency to replace them would be accelerated with the new increased load placed upon the engine - and give yourself another few hours of work to do on top of the time to do the vsos(p.i.t.a)

 

Again valves springs are not a necessity but a fail safe - there is no doubt fatigue is going to have taken its toll with an engine reving to 6800rpm at 1.2 bar for most of its like, and again, change them if need be to prevent replacing more stuff in the near future yet again

 

Mythical Limited abilities - Whats the resolution of the Emanage? What would you say in your learned opinion(No sarcasm intended, I do believe you have one) these ecu's could safely control fueling wise with a stock like safety margin? How many I/O are available to add/control, your idle is fine, is it controlled via the stock tps?

 

There may be genuine and positive answers to all of the above, I just know I wouldnt be happy running a T67 on 720CC injectors with a piggyback, but then thats were we all differ:)

 

Your stating the obvious

 

So everyone that owns a supra automatically knows about single turbo conversions - their additions and costs - bollox!!

Edited August 4, 2008 by bolarbag (see edit history)

[Wez]

Im going to be running my T67 dbb on stock cams to start with and if i like it it will stay that way:)

 

Stock cams are great for low down punch and spool

[Ian C]

Out of interest whats your injector duty on 720CC injectors?

 

85% @38psi static, 6800rpm, 1.4bar. What's your setup run under those conditions?

 

Also you have the ability and confidence to continously tweak your map whereas most dont, how long have you spent on said map I can bet it was not just one mapping session never to be connected to the laptop again

 

The initial mapping did indeed take many iterations, there is no way it wouldn't with any ECU ever However when I did other people's cars it was generally a one-time event over about 4 or 5 hours, adapting their car to my honed base map structure. Seemed to work - I think two or three people came back for (free) tweaking, no problem with that and I always said I'd do it.

 

The last time I tweaked my map was for cold start in winter, back in oh, January maybe? The last actual mapping session to sort out fuelling and driveability, wow, er about two or three years ago? It's solid state and it remembers what you type in you know You seem to be implying that a piggyback ECU needs a tweak every time you drive it whereas a standalone needs one mapping session and it's factory perfect, I'm not sure where you've coming from with that

 

Although I agree there would be more power than stock here, I'd prefer my powerband to be a bit more than 1500K rpm, again, with a T67 any suspension issues here are going to be shown up pretty quickly with traction issues

 

1500rpm powerband? Did you see Homer's dyno? Find attached a screenie from Ryan's funky dyno comparison website. It's my car vs Homers. I have ignition timing so conservative it makes Ryan want to cry, and I had a wastegate leak due to my own stupidity (now fixed) so it's not the be-all and end-all comparison but oh cripes, look at that stock cammed T67 hanging on in there to the redline 300bhp before 4500rpm could be classed as the start of a powerband so thats about 2500rpm on serious wellie, and no stocker is going to beat that as the sequential system puts paid to power below 4500rpm.

 

unless your cars been sitting sorn for the last few years or you use the car very rarely the cars mileages are going to be at the stage where things are going to start going wrong, why replace cam cover seals, bolt washers, cams, camshaft oil seals when you have to replace them all again when its time to do the valve stem oil seals, of which the urgency to replace them would be accelerated with the new increased load placed upon the engine - and give yourself another few hours of work to do on top of the time to do the vsos(p.i.t.a)

 

I'm still confused by this I've replaced the cam cover seals precisely once, when they visibly leaked because they had got hard. They are cheerfully reusable. As are the bolt washers - they could be factory ones for all I know. The cams aren't exactly a service item, and the cam oil seal rings only need swapping if you swap the cams out. So again, unless there is burning oil smoke coming from the exhaust you're better off leaving all that gubbins alone And they aren't going to wear out any faster just because the engine power is higher for the same RPMs.

 

Again valves springs are not a necessity but a fail safe - there is no doubt fatigue is going to have taken its toll with an engine reving to 6800rpm at 1.2 bar for most of its like, and again, change them if need be to prevent replacing more stuff in the near future yet again

 

I've never heard of a valve spring going yet, doesn't mean it hasn't happened though. And my engine sits around 2000rpm for most of its life, and I'd say everyone else's does too if it's a normal street car

 

Mythical Limited abilities - Whats the resolution of the Emanage?

 

One 16*16 airflow map (+/- 100% adjust range)

Two switchable 16*16 injector maps (-80 to +100% adjust range)

Two switchable 16*16 ignition maps (+/- 20deg adjust range)

All adjustment in 0.5 steps.

Correction maps all over the place, air temp, water temp, vehicle speed, acceleration. Timing and fuelling. There is a rev limit defeater that actually works, there is speedo conversion and speed limiter removal even autobox stuff to help it shift better. Oh and launch control if your car is compatible (sadly the Supra is not)

 

What would you say in your learned opinion(No sarcasm intended, I do believe you have one) these ecu's could safely control fueling wise with a stock like safety margin?

 

Not sure what you mean by a "stock safety margin" but with the EMU's ability to lower injector duration as well as extend it, I'd say it'd run 1000cc injectors if they could open briefly enough for idle purposes.

How many I/O are available to add/control, your idle is fine, is it controlled via the stock tps?

 

The idle is controlled by the stock ICV by the stock ECU. So it's pretty factory, mmm nice

 

I/Os, jesus, let me think - there is a switched output windowed by rpm and 'whatever you want', there is an analogue voltage output, two relay switch outputs, two additional injector outputs that you can use for WI or No2 if you like, two extra ignition signal outputs (it has 8) etc etc.

 

Not bad for what, £500?

 

There may be genuine and positive answers to all of the above,

 

yes, yes there are

 

I just know I wouldnt be happy running a T67 on 720CC injectors with a piggyback

 

That's fine, some people aren't happy with the idea of evolution either

 

-Ian

[b_have]

85% @38psi static, 6800rpm, 1.4bar. What's your setup run under those conditions?

 

 

 

The initial mapping did indeed take many iterations, there is no way it wouldn't with any ECU ever However when I did other people's cars it was generally a one-time event over about 4 or 5 hours, adapting their car to my honed base map structure. Seemed to work - I think two or three people came back for (free) tweaking, no problem with that and I always said I'd do it.

 

The last time I tweaked my map was for cold start in winter, back in oh, January maybe? The last actual mapping session to sort out fuelling and driveability, wow, er about two or three years ago? It's solid state and it remembers what you type in you know You seem to be implying that a piggyback ECU needs a tweak every time you drive it whereas a standalone needs one mapping session and it's factory perfect, I'm not sure where you've coming from with that

 

 

 

1500rpm powerband? Did you see Homer's dyno? Find attached a screenie from Ryan's funky dyno comparison website. It's my car vs Homers. I have ignition timing so conservative it makes Ryan want to cry, and I had a wastegate leak due to my own stupidity (now fixed) so it's not the be-all and end-all comparison but oh cripes, look at that stock cammed T67 hanging on in there to the redline 300bhp before 4500rpm could be classed as the start of a powerband so thats about 2500rpm on serious wellie, and no stocker is going to beat that as the sequential system puts paid to power below 4500rpm.

 

 

 

I'm still confused by this I've replaced the cam cover seals precisely once, when they visibly leaked because they had got hard. They are cheerfully reusable. As are the bolt washers - they could be factory ones for all I know. The cams aren't exactly a service item, and the cam oil seal rings only need swapping if you swap the cams out. So again, unless there is burning oil smoke coming from the exhaust you're better off leaving all that gubbins alone And they aren't going to wear out any faster just because the engine power is higher for the same RPMs.

 

 

 

I've never heard of a valve spring going yet, doesn't mean it hasn't happened though. And my engine sits around 2000rpm for most of its life, and I'd say everyone else's does too if it's a normal street car

 

 

 

One 16*16 airflow map (+/- 100% adjust range)

Two switchable 16*16 injector maps (-80 to +100% adjust range)

Two switchable 16*16 ignition maps (+/- 20deg adjust range)

All adjustment in 0.5 steps.

Correction maps all over the place, air temp, water temp, vehicle speed, acceleration. Timing and fuelling. There is a rev limit defeater that actually works, there is speedo conversion and speed limiter removal even autobox stuff to help it shift better. Oh and launch control if your car is compatible (sadly the Supra is not)

 

 

 

Not sure what you mean by a "stock safety margin" but with the EMU's ability to lower injector duration as well as extend it, I'd say it'd run 1000cc injectors if they could open briefly enough for idle purposes.

 

 

The idle is controlled by the stock ICV by the stock ECU. So it's pretty factory, mmm nice

 

I/Os, jesus, let me think - there is a switched output windowed by rpm and 'whatever you want', there is an analogue voltage output, two relay switch outputs, two additional injector outputs that you can use for WI or No2 if you like, two extra ignition signal outputs (it has 8) etc etc.

 

Not bad for what, £500?

 

 

 

yes, yes there are

 

 

 

That's fine, some people aren't happy with the idea of evolution either

 

-Ian

 

Great post Ian, I love my emu

[bolarbag]

Also you have the ability and confidence to continously tweak your map whereas most dont, how long have you spent on said map I can bet it was not just one mapping session never to be connected to the laptop again

 

You seem to be implying that a piggyback ECU needs a tweak every time you drive it whereas a standalone needs one mapping session and it's factory perfect, I'm not sure where you've coming from with that

 

I'm trying to point out here that although you may have ran the car problem free for your life of the single, with continuous adjustments its going to be - you say you map around your own base structure - what happens when someone doesnt want the same setup as your own?

 

Not sure what you mean by a "stock safety margin" but with the EMU's ability to lower injector duration as well as extend it, I'd say it'd run 1000cc injectors if they could open briefly enough for idle purposes.

 

Safety margin i.e sub 80% max injector duty cycle(Something you seem to have flaunted - with success I may add),

Does it have its own peak and hold injector duty driver then?

What degree of accuracy does the emu have in both ignition and fuel calibration?

720's would be fine without cams on a T67 but then why the need for a T67 in the first place?

 

Not bad for what, £500?

 

I agree fully here - in fact I'd say good for £500;)

 

That's fine, some people aren't happy with the idea of evolution either

 

Peoples perception of evolution obviously differ:)

[Ian C]

I'm glad you cut down on the Wall Of Text hehe

 

I'm trying to point out here that although you may have ran the car problem free for your life of the single, with continuous adjustments its going to be - you say you map around your own base structure - what happens when someone doesnt want the same setup as your own?

 

Well my response was that I haven't continually adjusted it Left it alone for two years as it's running fine (apart from the cold start tweak - can't test a -2deg cold morning in summer ) I have a base map for stockers and for singles, and it's fitted around 550, 650, 720, 800cc injectors, different cams, etc. - that's what the 5hrs are for, and why it's a 'base' map.

 

Safety margin i.e sub 80% max injector duty cycle(Something you seem to have flaunted - with success I may add),

It's 85% according to Corky Bell. According to all the supras people drive at BPU level it's 100% and I've never heard of an injector burning out yet. Not that I advocate that of course. My arbitrary limit was 90% mainly for overboost condition headroom (my map is designed to overfuel and pull timing if you go past the maximum boost it's mapped for.)

 

Does it have its own peak and hold injector duty driver then?

Nope, the stock ECU still drives the injectors, the EMU intercepts the ground switch signal and either extends it or shortens it depending on what the map says.

What degree of accuracy does the emu have in both ignition and fuel calibration?

0.5% steps in injector duty adjustment, 0.5deg of timing in ignition. Although why you'd mess about with half a degree I don't know - same as the ability to individually trim fuel and ignition per cylinder, how the hell do you measure that without 6 O2 sensors and christ knows what knock detection system, and how much gains would you see anyway? Although I got in trouble saying that once before so hey

 

720's would be fine without cams on a T67 but then why the need for a T67 in the first place?

Erm, it's a big turbo that gives you loads of power? The DBB one gives excellent midrange shove without sacrificing top end? Not sure what you mean there. And what's the injector size got to do with cams?

 

-Ian

[bolarbag]

Quote:

720's would be fine without cams on a T67 but then why the need for a T67 in the first place?

 

Erm, it's a big turbo that gives you loads of power? The DBB one gives excellent midrange shove without sacrificing top end? Not sure what you mean there. And what's the injector size got to do with cams?

 

 

Its a big turbo with the potential to give you loads of power, you sacrifice low down for gains up top, gains you would only marginally receive without cams

 

Personally I'd expect more/want more than 580bhp(UK figures) from a T67, but then thats within the limitations of the 720cc injectors imho,

 

My figures stem from a Bsfc of .6(thats being generous I'm lead to believe) so in my quest for 600bhp (600x0.6x10.2)/6=612 the minimum cc/min of flow I need for 600bhp

 

Add in a 20%safety margin(not just for overboost but for the injectors themselves) I get 765cc

 

So your 85% stands for your given 580bhp or thereabouts that you made, but not if it then goes on to achieve anything higher - with a T67dbb its more then possible

 

IMO, a tubby like a T61/GT35R would be better suited to a car without cams especially a j-spec

 

I remember a comment about the reason for going single was driveability - well thats altered in more ways than one if you go T67dbb on stock cams - isnt the whole point to have all the benefits of the stock car(including its broad power band) with the extra power?

[Homer]

I remember a comment about the reason for going single was driveability - well thats altered in more ways than one if you go T67dbb on stock cams - isnt the whole point to have all the benefits of the stock car(including its broad power band) with the extra power?

 

Driveability for me is having as much torque available across the power band as possible, bhp means nothing.

 

In the graph below you can see my car at 1.2bar BPU and 1.4bar with the single. Until about 3300rpm, the T67 is only a few ib/ft lower than BPU, but after the difference is enormous. So, which would be the more driveable once the car is already under way?

[bolarbag]

Driveability for me is having as much torque available across the power band as possible, bhp means nothing.

 

It would do if you had none, torque is nothing and I mean literally nothing without horsepower, both go hand in hand so I wouldnt pass one off for the other

 

I'd rather have the T67 please - then I'd be on my way to a well setup single;) - if it was the choice of having both, a proper bpu+ car or a T67 without cams then not being allowed to modify either - it would be a very close call,

 

I'm gonna lay my cards out on the table - it really would be bpu+ it would be more of a pleasure to drive around a track

[JamieP]

It would do if you had none, torque is nothing and I mean literally nothing without horsepower

 

Tell that to any rally team and they will laugh, most have to run a 33mm restrictor that limits the cars to 300bhp, but they still get 550nm of torque which makes them fast.

Ive tried a range of turbos ( T88, phr stage 3, various gt4088's) and out of them the smallest (gt4088, similar size to a T67;)) one with the broadest torque made for the fastest road car by a long way.

Edited August 5, 2008 by JamieP (see edit history)

[Kopite]

Bolarbag, just wondering mate, have you driven a T67 with/without cams?