fastisnice Posted August 20, 2002 Share Posted August 20, 2002 I'm about to start some serious work on my engine and i was wondering.I don't have the cash for big HKS turbos so i was thinking to got for a 500bhp engine with all the usual upgrades apart from internals(off course cams though).I saw in max power the 850+ supra and it was based on stock bottom end!.Would it be possible to have 500bhp on the engine and 200bhp running on NOS?? or 700bhp would be too much for stock bottom end? any ideas? ( This guy at Max power says that 650-700 is fine.. and i 've heard this from other people as well) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GavinL Posted August 20, 2002 Share Posted August 20, 2002 Originally posted by fastisnice I'm about to start some serious work on my engine and i was wondering.I don't have the cash for big HKS turbos so i was thinking to got for a 500bhp engine with all the usual upgrades apart from internals(off course cams though). Could you possibly edit this post I can't really understand what you are asking in the first section. There are a few people running big BHP on the stock bottom end over in the US. Quite for how long the engine will remain in one peice is of course questionable. Interestingly the owner of MVP Motorsports, big parts supplier in the US, who as you might imagine has a very good insight into people cars has commented on the number of undisclosed breakages, blown engines and basic downright lies spoken on the US forums about cars specs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eyefi Posted August 20, 2002 Share Posted August 20, 2002 i dont think an 700horse engine is gonna b very reliable unless built well (which unfortunately means very expensive). dont forget u cant have a 500hp engine and run it at 700hp just by chucking nos in. u still need to b able to chuck 700hp worth of fuel in and supply 700hp worth of nice temp air. dont forget brakes, gearbox, clutch, insurance, diffs etc etc. if u dont mind me asking, how r u gonna build this 500/700hp engine? personally i think massive hp is wasted (and in alot of circumstances worse) in street cars. r u gonna drag? im really happy with about 380ish and working on handling and resposiveness. if u dont have the money to build the 700 hp engine i dont think u can afford to run a badly (cheap) built one. dont get me wrong im not having a go, just offering my opinion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Syed Shah Posted August 20, 2002 Share Posted August 20, 2002 If it was in Lax Power it must be right! 700bhp is a LOT, it needs a properly built engine, not just NOS. DO IT PROPERLY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Digsy Posted August 20, 2002 Share Posted August 20, 2002 Well GM have made a 1000bhp drag racing engine out of a 2.2 litre L850 lump such as you might find in a current model year Saturn, SAAB, or Vauxhall / Opel product. Its only got to last for a few runs, but - hey - they did it! Over 100% increase in specific power output is one helluva lot for any engine - even one with a cast iron bottom end. Making the huge assumption that the Max Power engine is durable, I would take the words "based on" with a huge pinch of salt. At that kind of output, either a lot has been beefed up, or something, somewhere is breaking... IMHO of course Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fastisnice Posted August 20, 2002 Author Share Posted August 20, 2002 Hmm, Hubrids stage 3,F-con V,fuel pump,injectors,exhaust,filter,evc,cams,type r intercooler,head work (ROUGHLY) yeah brakes off course and RLTC.I got the F-con V,exhaust,filter.I can get the hybrids on my warranty(because they are gone),so i think that i can have a nice 460 with some more cash..Stick NOS(with proper setup VIA the F-CON V) what i don't know is how much bhp on NOS i can get....Its a fact that Supra gearboxes are bulletproof and i'm pretty sure that a stock bottom end can take up to 650-670 hope so.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Syed Shah Posted August 20, 2002 Share Posted August 20, 2002 Good luck! You'll need it!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fastisnice Posted August 21, 2002 Author Share Posted August 21, 2002 :flame Dev Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gaz Walker Posted August 21, 2002 Share Posted August 21, 2002 Originally posted by fastisnice Hmm, Hubrids stage 3,F-con V,fuel pump,injectors,exhaust,filter,evc,cams,type r intercooler,head work (ROUGHLY) yeah brakes off course and RLTC.I got the F-con V,exhaust,filter.I can get the hybrids on my warranty(because they are gone),so i think that i can have a nice 460 with some more cash..Stick NOS(with proper setup VIA the F-CON V) what i don't know is how much bhp on NOS i can get....Its a fact that Supra gearboxes are bulletproof and i'm pretty sure that a stock bottom end can take up to 650-670 hope so.... What about these: Cam gears, Twin/Triple plate clutch (or Autobox Cooler and Torque Convertor) Forged Rods / Pistons, Metal Head Gasket - thats another 3+ grand alone. If you want more than a 100bhp shot of NOS, you going to have to get a NOS 6-port Fogger system with all the options (bottle warmer, remote bottle opener etc etc) Gaz. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
randy Posted August 21, 2002 Share Posted August 21, 2002 Get the Greddy T-78 turbo for about $3800 and a fuel system from SP for about $2400 your aldready there 700bhp!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Martin F Posted August 21, 2002 Share Posted August 21, 2002 Originally posted by randy Get the Greddy T-78 turbo for about $3800 and a fuel system from SP for about $2400 your aldready there 700bhp!! Yeah right, how about running that fuel system ? What are you going to use for that the stock ECU ? Then the setting up and tuning. Randy....do you own a stetson ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Terry S Posted August 21, 2002 Share Posted August 21, 2002 Originally posted by randy Get the Greddy T-78 turbo for about $3800 and a fuel system from SP for about $2400 your aldready there 700bhp!! LOL Randy, you do make me laugh. For $5000 you can have a genuine 700 bhp car! Wow! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paulrenn Posted August 21, 2002 Share Posted August 21, 2002 Bah, this just sounds like a load of badly planned wishlists all round, so I'll add my own I would say that the stock motor itself is good for around 500 BHP, no need to upgrade the head gasket (already metal!), no need to put aftermarket pistons (stocks are already forged!), even the 550cc injectors/UK fuel pump will be enough to support this if you can control the fuel mapping properly. You just probably need nice single or twin turbos and FMIC, plus freeflowing exhaust. To get to 700 BHP you're gonna have to spend A LOT. The first power mods are relatively cheap, but after that it costs you exponentially more per HP...! And, who's going to do all this work on your car? The labour alone will probably outweigh the cost of the parts unless you DIY... LOL @ stetson!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Terry S Posted August 21, 2002 Share Posted August 21, 2002 Originally posted by paulrenn no need to put aftermarket pistons (stocks are already forged Mmmm.....are you sure about this! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paulrenn Posted August 21, 2002 Share Posted August 21, 2002 I think Chris Wilson posted this recently. I must confess I haven't opened my engine lately for a look-see Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Terry S Posted August 21, 2002 Share Posted August 21, 2002 This is different to what I've been told. Rods & Crank are forged but not pistons. CW? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paulrenn Posted August 21, 2002 Share Posted August 21, 2002 Just had a quick search on the site, and cannot find reference to the stock ones being forged. In light of this, I retract my "stock pistons are forged" comment for now Thanks for pointing this out, Terry. Don't want to mislead others. However, I still maintain the stock bottom ones are probably good for 500 BHP if the rest of your car is properly set up (i.e. keep detonation at bay) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paulrenn Posted August 21, 2002 Share Posted August 21, 2002 Now I know where I saw it quoted, was on the mkiv mailing list. However, this assertion was actually corrected by other list members as follows: > the stock pistons are not forgings - they're cast, but > a very good design. > > Stock crank & rods are forgings. Hope this clears up the confusion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Terry S Posted August 21, 2002 Share Posted August 21, 2002 I know the stock bottom end is fine for 500bhp:D Did it for 18 months. I think the issue is whether it could take another 200 bhp shot of nitrous on top. I would have to say no if you wanted to do it realiably, & possiblbly if the use was very intermittent. NOS puts a huge strain on the rods as the increase in torque can be phenomenal. If you brought the NOS on to low in the rev range then you would be sure to destroy the engine with that much NOS. Gaz is right about direct port systems. This would be needed over say 75 bhp. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paulrenn Posted August 21, 2002 Share Posted August 21, 2002 Originally posted by Terry Saunders I know the stock bottom end is fine for 500bhp:D Did it for 18 months. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ian C Posted August 21, 2002 Share Posted August 21, 2002 Terry, You got 500bhp out of sequential hybrids, didn't you? What were you running to achieve that? I'm interested in eventually getting mine to the best sequential setup possible (without going mad) Everyone else - keep dreaming about hatstand power levels, but don't be suprised or upset when your ideas get shot down in flames Keep it friendly! -Ian Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bradb Posted August 21, 2002 Share Posted August 21, 2002 My Supra is 650 BHP, I've a big HKS speaker system that allows it to boost faster or summat.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Terry S Posted August 21, 2002 Share Posted August 21, 2002 Ian, In brief it was "special" hybrids ( Barry now has them) with titanium shafts & a slightly bigger than norm compressor wheel. Bit more machining to inlets. They also had bigger wastegate installed. HKS Cams & cam gear (tuned), UR lightweight pulleys, UR lightweight flywheel, electric fans, additional injectors controlled by an ERL MF2, water injection, Blitz filter with cold air box, HKS R type FMIC c/w spray, HKS Trac butterfly removal, FSE, HKS SSBOV, 6 puck clutch, 3" DP, UK pump, & good fuel............ If I think of anything else I'll tell you:) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gaz Walker Posted August 21, 2002 Share Posted August 21, 2002 Originally posted by Terry Saunders I know the stock bottom end is fine for 500bhp:D Did it for 18 months. I think the issue is whether it could take another 200 bhp shot of nitrous on top. I would have to say no if you wanted to do it realiably, & possiblbly if the use was very intermittent. NOS puts a huge strain on the rods as the increase in torque can be phenomenal. If you brought the NOS on to low in the rev range then you would be sure to destroy the engine with that much NOS. Gaz is right about direct port systems. This would be needed over say 75 bhp. Terry, my thoughts exactly. I friend of mine has a Skyline GTR, its a genuine 550bhp on low boost (1.2 bar), now running a 1.6 bar through a T78. He is running a basic 75hp "wet kit". His engine tuning is highly advanced (read: every part of the engine is non-stock), and he has every guage Greddy make on the dash. When he flicks the NOS on, it makes boost instantly, and the A/F ratio goes straight to borderline OK/Lean (his car is overfuelled, 1000cc injectors etc). He is moving to the direct port kit very soon. Regards, Gaz. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Terry S Posted August 21, 2002 Share Posted August 21, 2002 Gaz your friend isn't Ronnie is it, as that car looked like it had a T78 to me:D P.S. No spying !! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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