Mike B Posted August 1, 2008 Share Posted August 1, 2008 my apexi egt sensor has failed.... possibly due to incorrect fitting (overtightening, and too much of the tip in the gas stream. does anyone know if these sensors are standard issue, (I remember Chris W saying there was only one sort he would use), what the compatibility issues exist between them? otherwise it's time to buy a new apexi sensor. Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Wilson Posted August 1, 2008 Share Posted August 1, 2008 You should really use an Inconel probe. I may be getting some more in, if interested I'd need to know how long a lead you'd need on it, they can't be shortened or lengthened, they are part of the calibration. I can also get stainless steel 1/8 BSP adaptors for the manifold. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike B Posted August 1, 2008 Author Share Posted August 1, 2008 Thanks Chris, any idea on price and compatibility though? do they all put out a standardised voltage? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bolarbag Posted August 1, 2008 Share Posted August 1, 2008 I pm'd you the other day chris, maybe I should have emailed, Anyway it was about the egt sensors Can the ones you supply work with aftermarket gauges? I have a Defi EGT gauge, not sure which type of sensors they use but inconel does sound more widely used, My question is, if I fit one that you supply is the range going to be the same as my Defi gauge so that I can read the gauge in cabin? If not I could just hook it up to the motec, but until I get the incar pc in I'd be blind, Also is it ok to tap the egt sensor into the exhaust housing at the collector rather than the Exh manifold? If not and it has to be runner 6, once the bung is welded to the exh mani, what are the chances of it cracking? My exh mani is a tubular Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bolarbag Posted August 1, 2008 Share Posted August 1, 2008 do they all put out a standardised voltage? Yeah thats what I meant to add:) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkR Posted August 1, 2008 Share Posted August 1, 2008 I have a question about these pesky EGT probes. CW has recommended in another thread to install in the manifold as close to cylinder 6 as possible as it runs the hottest, but then you're going to miss out on something like the injector failing on one of the other cylinders and running lean. I've been searching around but still unsure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wez Posted August 1, 2008 Share Posted August 1, 2008 As far as I am aware you dont need to calibrate K-Type probes as they are all calibrated to have the same output. When wiring an EGT into an ECU, if its a 0-5v you need the calibration data and a K-Type you just select K-Type, no calibration data to enter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Wilson Posted August 1, 2008 Share Posted August 1, 2008 I use No 1 cylinder, ideally No 6, but to be honest the variation should be miniscule. I probe about 1/2 inch from the port of the head. All the gauges i have come across use a "K" type thermocouple, and these can be swapped around ad lib, they should all share the exact same electrical characteristics. I think a proper race quality Inconel probe with a 1.5 metre lead, sheathed in stainless braid is about 35 quid, plugs and sockets are about 5 quid, with these you can connect to any gauge lead. The cost of stainless adaptors and olives escapes me, probably about 3 quid each? I can check over the weekend if anyon'e interested? Inconel melts at a much higher temp than a stainless probe, I won't run anything else. I have 4 probes in my Toyota 4AGE engine in one of the Zeus cars, below, although these are trick 90 degree ones, due to space restrictions. The ones I normally buy are straight, but otherwise similar, and the K plugs are the same. In the photos the black strips the probes terminate at are Motec EGT amplifiers, you don't get those! http://www.chriswilson.tv/probes/1.jpg http://www.chriswilson.tv/probes/2.jpg Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike B Posted August 1, 2008 Author Share Posted August 1, 2008 I have a question about these pesky EGT probes. CW has recommended in another thread to install in the manifold as close to cylinder 6 as possible as it runs the hottest, but then you're going to miss out on something like the injector failing on one of the other cylinders and running lean. I've been searching around but still unsure. the answer is to have an egt on every runner. if you put them in the collector then you only see a small rise which is terminal by the time you notice anyway. chris runs one in each runner on his car.... 6th runner is the hottest, historically the 1st to fail, and the one to watch! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike B Posted August 1, 2008 Author Share Posted August 1, 2008 I'll try one of these. When I get home I will tke a pic of my coupling and see if it rings any bells. If not, out with the soldering iron. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bolarbag Posted August 1, 2008 Share Posted August 1, 2008 (edited) Yeah sounds good, I'll send off an email with the details... Is your motec man back yet? What is the best method to weld a bung to a tubular mani? Tig? Any special preparations? Edited August 1, 2008 by bolarbag (see edit history) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Wilson Posted August 1, 2008 Share Posted August 1, 2008 Yeah sounds good, I'll send off an email with the details... Is your motec man back yet? No, I need some stuff off him myself, he's not answering cell phone messages, probably lapping it up at the Diniz place in Brazil again, *ast*rd. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tricky-Ricky Posted August 1, 2008 Share Posted August 1, 2008 I have a question about these pesky EGT probes. CW has recommended in another thread to install in the manifold as close to cylinder 6 as possible as it runs the hottest, but then you're going to miss out on something like the injector failing on one of the other cylinders and running lean. I've been searching around but still unsure. I am inclined to think that even with six EGT sensors, you would be lucky to spot an injector dying before it caused damage anyway, so total overkill on a road car, you would also notice AFRs going lean. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Wilson Posted August 1, 2008 Share Posted August 1, 2008 I agree, one is adequate, the only reasons the Zeus has them is the guy who commissioned it was a US Attorney with a fat wallet who ticked every option in the Motec catalogue (£7000 worth of ADL dash and logging...), and the fact the engine runs at the ragged edge, compression wise and RPM wise, and the data is logged, as you are too busy changing gear with a 2000 RPM power band to look at instrumentation much. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkR Posted August 1, 2008 Share Posted August 1, 2008 Would it be a good idea to run your #6 injector slightly richer to keep the temps down a bit? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bolarbag Posted August 1, 2008 Share Posted August 1, 2008 Why would you do that? Your trying to get a reflection of the egt's of the engine as a whole, Do you mean to bring No.6 temps more inline with the rest? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Wilson Posted August 1, 2008 Share Posted August 1, 2008 If you are tuning to the edge, maybe, but for a road car you shouldn't get anywhere near needing such trickery. You really need to run six O2 sensors or the special plugs that the manufacturers run that measure in cylinder EGT's. I would just go for a conservative WOT mixture and allow a bit of timing for poor fuel. People talk of No 6 running a higher EGT et cetera, but have you got any proper evidence of this? i have never seen a six probe 2JZ-GTE, or one with 6 O2 sensors (not that the latter would fit in a stock manifold). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wez Posted August 1, 2008 Share Posted August 1, 2008 You may notice on a few 2JZ-GTE maps that cylinders 1,5 and 6 have a smidging more fuel for this exact reason. Even the AEM basemaps have this small correction. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkR Posted August 1, 2008 Share Posted August 1, 2008 Do you mean to bring No.6 temps more inline with the rest? Yes Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkR Posted August 1, 2008 Share Posted August 1, 2008 If you are tuning to the edge, maybe, but for a road car you shouldn't get anywhere near needing such trickery. Thanks Chris, good point. You may notice on a few 2JZ-GTE maps that cylinders 1,5 and 6 have a smidging more fuel for this exact reason. Even the AEM basemaps have this small correction. I haven't seen a map before so this is new to me but thanks for the info. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Wilson Posted August 1, 2008 Share Posted August 1, 2008 Although I understand the theory, I don't map complex turbo cars, I leave that to the experts Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tricky-Ricky Posted August 1, 2008 Share Posted August 1, 2008 You may notice on a few 2JZ-GTE maps that cylinders 1,5 and 6 have a smidging more fuel for this exact reason. Even the AEM basemaps have this small correction. Yes i always add a touch more DC to the last two injectors and - a degree or two of timing at high load/RPM sites. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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