Engine Rebuild by DaveSupTT

[d_d]

I assume you mean the air con rad being the other, which you wont be able to remove without loosing the gas i think. but if your removing the engine your probally loose it anyway

[DaveSupTT]

ah right, cheers for that. Just on my lunch break I guess futher inspection and all would of become clear.

My air con doesnt seem to work to well or if indeed work at all.

Cheers

[steb9780]

ah right, cheers for that. Just on my lunch break I guess futher inspection and all would of become clear.

My air con doesnt seem to work to well or if indeed work at all.

Cheers

 

Probably needs re-gassing mate.

[DaveSupTT]

Probably needs re-gassing mate.

 

Yes no doubt, but think ill concentrate on the engine first!

[DaveSupTT]

I have been reading up about my current set up, as to whether it could of been a contributor to my issues.

My car is BPU with Hybrids, and it has an Aeromotive fuel pressure regulator - which I am not sure if its set up correctly or not.

What I have found out is that if I am running my car at this level, I should have up-graded injectors - Power Enterprise 550cc injectors have been suggested.

My car currently has the stock J-spec 440's.

Now having done a bit of research myself, I am still unsure what it all means, as im only a novice, but would I be right in thinking that because I have been running the car at this level, and the car boost gauge has been showing anywhere between 1.2 up to 1.4bar!! this could be the reason why im having so many issues.

Not sure if this is relevant, but My car does have a thor fuel cut defender and im pretty sure it has a restrictor ring, and I believe it should stop the turbos seeing more than 1.2bar, but like I said, I have seen it boost higher, prior to all these problems.

If anyone can shed any light, give me any advise or info at all, your thoughts would be really appreciated.

Hopefully the engine will be out by this weekend, and I will be able to find out if its a seal that's gone, or a cracked piston head etc. Up to now, this is all the info I have (plus the issues I linked to in my 1st post!).

Just to add, I do not have any sort of fuel management, and im unclear as to whether I need it running the current spec. I have read that I could do with emanage ultimate or something??

Just to mention (in case it affects peoples advise) I am not planning on increasing power or going single turbo. I just want my car running well at BPU with Hybrids

 

Sorry for the long winded post, but to be honest my heads a bit clouded with all this..

If someone could give me advise and thoughts of whats going on, and if my injectors could off been part of the problem, and if so why, I would appreciate it.

 

And on another note, surely I should not have oil in my intercooler as shown in the pics above?

 

Cheers.

[Pixelfill]

I have been reading up about my current set up, as to whether it could of been a contributor to my issues.

My car is BPU with Hybrids, and it has an Aeromotive fuel pressure regulator - which I am not sure if its set up correctly or not.

What I have found out is that if I am running my car at this level, I should have up-graded injectors - Power Enterprise 550cc injectors have been suggested.

My car currently has the stock J-spec 440's.

Now having done a bit of research myself, I am still unsure what it all means, as im only a novice, but would I be right in thinking that because I have been running the car at this level, and the car boost gauge has been showing anywhere between 1.2 up to 1.4bar!! this could be the reason why im having so many issues.

Not sure if this is relevant, but My car does have a thor fuel cut defender and im pretty sure it has a restrictor ring, and I believe it should stop the turbos seeing more than 1.2bar, but like I said, I have seen it boost higher, prior to all these problems.

If anyone can shed any light, give me any advise or info at all, your thoughts would be really appreciated.

Hopefully the engine will be out by this weekend, and I will be able to find out if its a seal that's gone, or a cracked piston head etc. Up to now, this is all the info I have (plus the issues I linked to in my 1st post!).

Just to add, I do not have any sort of fuel management, and im unclear as to whether I need it running the current spec. I have read that I could do with emanage ultimate or something??

Just to mention (in case it affects peoples advise) I am not planning on increasing power or going single turbo. I just want my car running well at BPU with Hybrids

 

Sorry for the long winded post, but to be honest my heads a bit clouded with all this..

If someone could give me advise and thoughts of whats going on, and if my injectors could off been part of the problem, and if so why, I would appreciate it.

 

And on another note, surely I should not have oil in my intercooler as shown in the pics above?

 

Cheers.

 

if you were boosting up to 1.4 bar then you will almost definitely have seen some detonation, which may well be the root cause of all your problems.

 

Ideally you will want some fuel control, and as I mentioned to you the other day, your 440s probably won't be up to the task.

 

The other option is to fit a more restrictive ring to keep the boost down. The downside to this is that you may see higher EGTs. so could fit water injection to keep the combustion temperatures down.

 

all in all it's probably going to cost sorry.

 

Mike

[DaveSupTT]

Can you explain the whole detination thing again for us Mike so I can understand better.

Cheers

[Nic]

Can you explain the whole detination thing again for us Mike so I can understand better.

Cheers

 

Hybrid turbos flow more air than the stock turbos, so at 1.4bar you will probably have been running lean with the stock j-spec 440cc injectors.

 

In simple terms you are putting more air into the engine, so you need bigger injectors to compensate to keep the Air/Fuel mix safe. Bigger injectors and an ECU to control the fueling and timing is what you need.

[Dash Rendar]

When I queried the whole injector thing when this car went BPU (in case anyone didn't know, it used to be mine), most replies I got seemed to be of the opinion that the stock injectors were capable enough of sustaining 1.1 to 1.2 bar, which is what the car used to boost to on WOT. I don't know why it's boosting higher now. (It used to hit 1.1 bar with the Nur Spec R baffle in place, and 1.2 bar without.)

 

I agree you'd need bigger injectors if you plan to continue to boost to 1.4 bar, but they are only stage 1 hybrids and I was advised not to go higher than 1.2 (aside from all the other mods that would have been required to support it). If you plan to rebuild the engine and leave everything else alone, I'm not totally convinced bigger injectors are required. Perhaps a smaller restrictor ring and an electronic boost controller would be more suitable? (The Nur Spec is a good free flowing exhaust, so I don't imagine EGTs would be too high if you keep the boost to 1.2 or below.)

 

(In addition to the bigger injectors, as already stated, you'd need fuel management and a map if you continue to run the car at 1.4 bar, otherwise you'll be back to square one in no time.)

 

P.S. In response to the air con issue... It certainly used to work, and you may remember I demonstated it to you during the test drive!!

[Nic]

Don't think boost, think air flow, hybrid turbos are usually built with bigger internals so will flow more air, so you either need to run lower boost if running stock injectors or increase the fuelling with bigger injectors if you want to run higher boost.

 

It's all about the air/fuel mixture, bigger turbos flow more air so require more fuel to keep the mixture at a safe level.

[Dash Rendar]

As I understand it, the internals of these hybrids are stock (J-spec) dimensions (though built with steel rather than ceramic internals), and consequently flow and boost should mean the same on this setup. This is why I'm happy that 1.2 bar should be fine on stock injectors.

[Dash Rendar]

P.S. a bit of hijack, but in case anyone wants to follow up on Nic's comments about boost versus air flow, I once posted in Technical and it ended up being a very lengthy but interesting thread... http://www.mkivsupra.net/vbb/showthread.php?t=127950. (Because at first I really didn't get it!!)

[DaveSupTT]

When I queried the whole injector thing when this car went BPU (in case anyone didn't know, it used to be mine), most replies I got seemed to be of the opinion that the stock injectors were capable enough of sustaining 1.1 to 1.2 bar, which is what the car used to boost to on WOT. I don't know why it's boosting higher now. (It used to hit 1.1 bar with the Nur Spec R baffle in place, and 1.2 bar without.)

 

I agree you'd need bigger injectors if you plan to continue to boost to 1.4 bar, but they are only stage 1 hybrids and I was advised not to go higher than 1.2 (aside from all the other mods that would have been required to support it). If you plan to rebuild the engine and leave everything else alone, I'm not totally convinced bigger injectors are required. Perhaps a smaller restrictor ring and an electronic boost controller would be more suitable? (The Nur Spec is a good free flowing exhaust, so I don't imagine EGTs would be too high if you keep the boost to 1.2 or below.)

 

(In addition to the bigger injectors, as already stated, you'd need fuel management and a map if you continue to run the car at 1.4 bar, otherwise you'll be back to square one in no time.)

 

P.S. In response to the air con issue... It certainly used to work, and you may remember I demonstated it to you during the test drive!!

 

Hi Darren,

I am unsure as to why its boosting to 1.4 bar. As you said, when I got the car off you it didnt seem to go over 1.2bar. And since owning the car I have changed nothing. I have not added anything or removed anything, its exactly the same.

However, afer about 5 weeks of ownership, the car as you know stated displaying faults, and I took it down to Chris Wilson.

When he had a quick glance over at it, he asked if I was seeing silly boost on my gauge, to which I said yes, and he said he wasnt suprised.

I cant think for the life of me what his reason was. Hopefully, if he reads this he will make a comment if he can remeber!

By the way, what does WOT stand for. You mentioned it in the above post?

 

edit: Made Chris's name Bold and red in the hope he will spot this post easier, and make a nice comment for me

Edited August 6, 2008 by DaveSupTT (see edit history)

[UltraFlynn]

WOT == Wide Open Throttle

[DaveSupTT]

WOT == Wide Open Throttle

 

Thanks!

[Dash Rendar]

When he had a look a quick glance over at it, he asked if I was seeing silly boost on my gauge, to which I said yes, and he said he wasnt suprised.

I cant think for the life of me what his reason was. Hopefully, if he reads this he will make a comment if he can remeber!

 

I'd love to know too!

[DaveSupTT]

Just to add, as I have just confirmed with Darren, that prior to my engine issues the car was producing 315RWHP, which is a little shy of 400FWHP.

[DaveSupTT]

I have used the search tool but found nothing, Darren, or anyone, what exactly does it mean by stage 1 when relating to hybrids?

[Alex]

Stages are just a marketing term which don't mean anything specifically.

Stage 1 is a basic ported turbo with a new slightly larger than stock wheel + an enlarged internal wastegate port.

Stage 3 would be a turbo with housings that have all the spare material taken out of them leaving them less reliable but again able to fit a larger wheel. (+ the same enlarged w/g port)

[Ian C]

All this talk of stages and "this boost pressure should be OK but this one not on those injectors" is all very ballpark. Once it's all back together you need to get the fuelling checked out across the rev range, 'nuf sed.

 

-Ian

[DaveSupTT]

All this talk of stages and "this boost pressure should be OK but this one not on those injectors" is all very ballpark. Once it's all back together you need to get the fuelling checked out across the rev range, 'nuf sed.

 

-Ian

 

 

Who would you reccomend to check out the fueling issue, and will they tell me there and them if I need the bigger injectors etc, or am I best getting the injectors while im at the stage of rebuilding, to be on the safe side? Obviously, I dont want to be throwing my money at getting something I dont actually need.

Whats your thoughts?

[steb9780]

Who would you reccomend to check out the fueling issue, and will they tell me there and them if I need the bigger injectors etc, or am I best getting the injectors while im at the stage of rebuilding, to be on the safe side? Obviously, I dont want to be throwing my money at getting something I dont actually need.

Whats your thoughts?

 

The way I see this mate is either

 

A. Do the rebuild and stick with 1.2 bar maximum boost.

 

or

 

B. Run 1.4 bar but to support this you will need both bigger injectors and some sort of fuel control. Either a full ECU or as most people do a piggyback. That's what you will need to do it safely.

 

The decision is yours really.

[Dash Rendar]

First off, those tubbies were not meant to be run beyond 1.2 bar... at least, that was what was advised to me.

 

As for Ian's suggestion, presumably the easiest way to do this is to just dyno the car when it's all built and check the AFRs. If it looks like it's got lean spots, then you can think about investing in ECUs and bigger injectors. If the AFRs look fine, then it's job done.

[DaveSupTT]

I think my plan will be to stick to 1.2bar, as after being told these turbos have been advised against seeing bigger boost, I would be daft to increase it!

So my plan will be to rebuild the engine and sort it out so its running safely, and make sure the turbos dont see more than 1.2 bar.

I am still unsure as it whether I need bigger injectors or not, as people clearly have different views. After reading Nics comment (post 4) on this thread http://www.mkivsupra.net/vbb/showthread.php?t=158458 it seems to me that I do need to, along with sorting out the fueling issue.

Also I am still unsure why it was boosting beyond 1.2 as I do have a restrictor ring in place. I have heard you need a boost controller on UK spec cars but this is J spec.

So im still a bit unclear here.

As for keeping it run

[Dash Rendar]

Boost controllers artificially raise boost by controlling opening of the wastegate. They don't restrict boost. UK specs have a larger wastegate and dont need a restrictor ring, but they do need a boost controller to increase the boost significantly above stock levels.

 

The J-Specs have a smaller wastegate, so the restictor ring is required to stop the boost from getting too high. As a result, the safest solution for you might be to put in a smaller restrictor ring and then use a boost controller as well.

 

Once that's sorted, you can determine if you need bigger injectors from a dyno run, as mentioned earlier. The dyno will tell if you're going lean or not. If you are, then it might be because your injectors are maxed out.

 

It depends how flush you are... I would advise doing these one step at a time, rather than assuming the injectors wont make the grade and spending money on them just in case. (But that's only because I'm poor!)