Snooze Posted July 24, 2008 Share Posted July 24, 2008 Evolution is a fact. However Darwin's, "Survival of the fittest" Theory of Evolution is a bit shaky, as it relies on "random mutations" to provide the evolutionary changes. I believe that many mathematicians have looked at this and actually concluded that it is statistically virtually impossible for evolution to have occurred as documeted (through fossil records, genetic observation, viral adaption) purely through random mutation. The problem is that creationists use the holes in the random mutation theory to denounce evolution as a whole. Personally, I believe random mutation, a la Darwin, plays a part (but a very small one) in evolution, but there is much more to it than that - many species (especially viruses) have demonstrated an actual ability to genetically mutate during their own lifespan to adapt to changing environments. I believe that it is in these sort of mutations that more theories of evolution can be discerned. Of course, I'm a computer programmer, not a biologist, so this is probably all b*llocks! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Posted July 24, 2008 Share Posted July 24, 2008 I did like that statement I don't know the whole reason why we're less hairy than our furry ancestors, but maybe clothing has something to do with it. I don't think the same applies to elephants really. Unless you've seen a clothing range for our rather large cousins? You have clearly forgotten about the ice age No, not the film Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lbm Posted July 24, 2008 Share Posted July 24, 2008 I did like that statement I don't think the same applies to elephants really. Unless you've seen a clothing range for our rather large cousins? I dunno- you shopped in Evans lately? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Posted July 24, 2008 Share Posted July 24, 2008 Evolution is a fact. Darwin's, "Survival of the fittest" Theory of Evolution is a bit shaky, as it relies on "random mutations" to provide the evolutionary changes. I believe that many mathematicians have looked at this and actually concluded that it is statistically virtually impossible for evolution to have occurred as documeted (through fossil records, genetic observation, viral adaption) purely through random mutation. Personally, I believe random mutation, a la Darwin, plays a part (but a very small one) in evolution, but there is much more to it than that - many species (especially viruses) have demonstrated an actual ability to genetically mutate during their own lifespan to adapt to changing environments. I believe that it is in these sort of mutations that more theories of evolution can be discerned. Of course, I'm a computer programmer, not a biologist, so this is probably all b*llocks! Nope, your absolutely spot on and viruses are a great example. Wish i had thought of Outbreak lol. I don't believe in random mutation. Well, i do but, not for evolutionary purposes. More along the lines of something spilled into the brew by accident. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndrewOW Posted July 24, 2008 Share Posted July 24, 2008 You have clearly forgotten about the ice age No, not the film Did God create that too? I remember it well. Sid was really funny Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Firestorm Posted July 24, 2008 Share Posted July 24, 2008 ice age had Ray Romano in. lol some good points people im really enjoying this! im soo unbeleivably bored at work. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Posted July 24, 2008 Share Posted July 24, 2008 Did God create that too? I remember it well. Sid was really funny If he did he was getting lazy, it took him 6 days to create the earth and all life yet it took him a gazillion years to freeze and unfreeze it through climate change. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Firestorm Posted July 24, 2008 Share Posted July 24, 2008 hey hes entitled to a few days holiday! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Posted July 24, 2008 Share Posted July 24, 2008 Now, to get into the depths of my faith... I don't believe in god, i don't believe in heaven, i don't believe in hell. I believe there was a man called Jesus Christ who died for his faith (not mankind) I believe there was a man called Saint Nicholas who tried to do his bit for humanity But mainly - I hope there is a heaven Faith to me means hope, not believe. A lot of people have lost touch of what faith actually is. I won't say there is or isn't something if i don't know. I will always say i do or don't think there is. Show me someone who doesn't hope there is a heaven and i'll show you someone who needs locked up. Thats my faith Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Firestorm Posted July 24, 2008 Share Posted July 24, 2008 Now, to get into the depths of my faith... I don't believe in god, i don't believe in heaven, i don't believe in hell. I believe there was a man called Jesus Christ who died for his faith (not mankind) I believe there was a man called Saint Nicholas who tried to do his bit for humanity But mainly - I hope there is a heaven Faith to me means hope, not believe. A lot of people have lost touch of what faith actually is. I won't say there is or isn't something if i don't know. I will always say i do or don't think there is. Show me someone who doesn't hope there is a heaven and i'll show you someone who needs locked up. Thats my faith see i think your rite.. people have lost hope. but then i think we could go down the politcal path as hope for us now is about our life.. it isnt simple and everyday gripes can be huges deals for us. for me Faith represents both hope and my belief. and yeh if hopes theyre is no heaven should be locked up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lbm Posted July 24, 2008 Share Posted July 24, 2008 see i think your rite.. people have lost hope. but then i think we could go down the politcal path as hope for us now is about our life.. it isnt simple and everyday gripes can be huges deals for us. for me Faith represents both hope and my belief. and yeh if hopes theyre is no heaven should be locked up. What's your concept of heaven Firestorm? Is it an afterlife? Is it enjoying the present moment? Or is it something else? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snooze Posted July 24, 2008 Share Posted July 24, 2008 Heaven would be great, but I gave up hoping that there'd be one a long, long time ago. However, I don't think my lack of hope prevents me from living a rich, fulfilling and "good" (ie. helping my fellow man) life. I don't need the heaven/hell carrot/stick to do this! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Firestorm Posted July 24, 2008 Share Posted July 24, 2008 What's your concept of heaven Firestorm? Is it an afterlife? Is it enjoying the present moment? Or is it something else? my idea of heaven.. see thats a tough question. i beleive in an afterlife for sure.. seems all to pointless for us to exist and die(for me ) i think that heaven wil be a place where i meet other people.. but i beleive their wont be pain suffering, or wrong doin. i beleive it will the best party ever! a place of enjoyment. ties it with hope and happyness really how bout u. p.s before anything everyone should be good to each other! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Posted July 24, 2008 Share Posted July 24, 2008 Heaven would be great, but I gave up hoping that there'd be one a long, long time ago. However, I don't think my lack of hope prevents me from living a rich, fulfilling and "good" (ie. helping my fellow man) life. I don't need the heaven/hell carrot/stick to do this! I'm curious but i have to ask why? When someone dies do you not hope heaven exists and they are in it? Its not a religious thing, its how our brain gets by. My wifes cat ran away just after we moved in. Chances are it got ran down, and we are pretty sure it did, but we still hope it didn't and that someone has taken her in. Hoping for the best during the worst is part of what makes us human. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Posted July 24, 2008 Share Posted July 24, 2008 my idea of heaven.. see thats a tough question. i beleive in an afterlife for sure.. seems all to pointless for us to exist and die(for me ) i think that heaven wil be a place where i meet other people.. but i beleive their wont be pain suffering, or wrong doin. i beleive it will the best party ever! a place of enjoyment. ties it with hope and happyness really how bout u. p.s before anything everyone should be good to each other! You and i have different ideas of "the best party ever" lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tbourner Posted July 24, 2008 Author Share Posted July 24, 2008 Heaven would be great, but I gave up hoping that there'd be one a long, long time ago. However, I don't think my lack of hope prevents me from living a rich, fulfilling and "good" (ie. helping my fellow man) life. I don't need the heaven/hell carrot/stick to do this! Me too. I live a 'good' life, but not because I'm scared of hell. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Firestorm Posted July 24, 2008 Share Posted July 24, 2008 a quote from a random tv show i have no idea what it was " stand on the white line , not snort it" springs to mind lol You and i have different ideas of "the best party ever" lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Firestorm Posted July 24, 2008 Share Posted July 24, 2008 EVERYONE regardless of beleif should try and live good. theres too much stuff in the world.. too much violence and too much of mans inhumanity to man. Me too. I live a 'good' life, but not because I'm scared of hell. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest willismaximus Posted July 24, 2008 Share Posted July 24, 2008 Personally, i can understand people hoping for something greater after we die as it gives people comfort that the end isn't necessarily the end and that's fine. I know plenty of people who can't accept that once you're done you're done but for me i'm of the opinion that once you go, as horrible as it may sound, that's it. If i die and am proved wrong then hooray for that, but unless someone can prove the unproveable then i'll go with what i personally imagine is the most likely scenario. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snooze Posted July 24, 2008 Share Posted July 24, 2008 I'm curious but i have to ask why? When someone dies do you not hope heaven exists and they are in it? Its not a religious thing, its how our brain gets by. Hoping for the best during the worst is part of what makes us human. Good question. I don't think of myself as a particularly emotional person, and I tend not to "suffer" (?) with grief too much. I also sometime feel that I do not "love" as much as other people seem to (or claim to). Maybe I'm less "human" than most humans? I like being nice to people, though...... I enjoy seeing other people happy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndrewOW Posted July 24, 2008 Share Posted July 24, 2008 EVERYONE regardless of beleif should try and live good. theres too much stuff in the world.. too much violence and too much of mans inhumanity to man. Mostly due to religion IMO I can see this thread going downhill fast, if we're not careful! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Posted July 24, 2008 Share Posted July 24, 2008 Good question. I don't think of myself as a particularly emotional person, and I tend not to "suffer" (?) with grief too much. I also sometime feel that I do not "love" as much as other people seem to (or claim to). Maybe I'm less "human" than most humans? I like being nice to people, though...... I enjoy seeing other people happy. Now, that is something very interesting. Believe it or not i am exactly the same. I seem to react differently than other people to most situations. I never understood the "love" thing, hard to explain really. My wife thinks i have a heart of stone. A few girlfriends have actually said to me "would you even care if i left", i said yes but i always doubted i would lol. Always assumed everyone else was just over emphisizing their thoughts, feelings. Least i'm not the only one now lol. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest willismaximus Posted July 24, 2008 Share Posted July 24, 2008 I agree that everyone should play nice with each other etc.... but unfortunately i can't see that ever happening.... course that could then be used in the pro-science anti-faithist (JustGav really has invented a word there because we're all using it now lol) argument to say that there isn't such thing as God as why would he let his own creations do some of the horrible things that we do to each other? Yes, those people who believe cite that he works in mysterious ways etc but if he allows things like that to happen then he mustn't care very much for his creations really to allow them to suffer the he does which makes him actually very cruel.... Also, have you noticed in literature i'e. the bible's own teachings, he is referred to as a 'he', now how on earth would anyone know that, did someone look under god's robes? If it is an omnipotent being then surely it would go beyond gender. Who Decided on the name 'God' where did that come from, and if he appeared to someone and referred to himself as that then how do we know this person wasn't just dreaming or hallucinating.... In fact, the bible could just be a fictional story written for entertainment just as a modern day novel is now but someone filed it in the factual department by accident..... Conspiracy theory time..... Sorry, went off on a rant about a few random thoughts there Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lbm Posted July 24, 2008 Share Posted July 24, 2008 my idea of heaven.. see thats a tough question. i beleive in an afterlife for sure.. seems all to pointless for us to exist and die(for me ) i think that heaven wil be a place where i meet other people.. but i beleive their wont be pain suffering, or wrong doin. i beleive it will the best party ever! a place of enjoyment. ties it with hope and happyness really how bout u. p.s before anything everyone should be good to each other! That's almost an astonishing thing to say I don't believe it's all too pointless. Perhaps then there is a difference between existing(in a mechanical sense) and actual living. So for me, my idea of heaven would be to drop our illusions and find some inner peace, before we die- and then and only then, I feel we may be on to to something. I guess many people think of heaven as an outwardly place- up high somewhere in the future, rather than inside themselves, right now. Still a pleasant enough discussion nonetheless Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest willismaximus Posted July 24, 2008 Share Posted July 24, 2008 Yeah, i get a lot of the "You don't have any emotional feelings" type statements from the missus but it's not like i don't have feelings, i think i do, just not very many and i guess i don't express the few i do actually have either which doesn't help matters apparently Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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