Humans killed Darwin (prepare for a long read).

[Firestorm]

or the Men in black theory where i universe is in a marble and we are just in a massive game of Marbles with giant aliens..

 

at least its better than scientology (this being the hollywood faith- it grinds my gears)

 

seriously tho its good to see that people can see both sides.. i think again we wont know till we die.. so all we can do is drive our supes!

 

mate i dont even have to think.. il go with God made World God made Man, God use dust and Rib to make Girl..

 

apes..nah your okay mate.. whcih is funny cos ur thinking im weird for think my reaseon and i think ur nuts for thing about apes lol! why apes.. we alreadly know that humans have similar characteristics to other animals.. but apes are purely the closes feature wise.

 

but if ape comes a man let me know and youve got my vote.

[tbourner]

you have to BELEIVE in the fact a MAN came up with the idea that it works this way.. so wheres the different in people and me beleive in a God that created things..

 

The difference is you believe god created it all, whereas believing a man can work out what happened is a bit easier to do, I dont believe a single man made the big bang, just had an idea and it fits the facts.

 

Anyway, why can't we believe in both? I do! See my last paragraph in the original post, I believe that. I think there is a higher power who was mucking about on his PC one day, making up little programmes and picking random laws of physics out of the air, then with one of these programmes he finally cracked it, all the random variable that are so unlikely to have come together, did! Well he is a higher power after all how hard can it be to create the laws of physics (and all other laws we don't know about yet).

So he hits the 'run' button and KABOOOOOM the big bang just.... sort of..... happens....... from nowhere!! Then evolution kicks in and here we are.

 

Maybe it's his science project for school and he's got to write a report on how long each species lasts, in relation to their 'natural strengths'.

[JustGav]

Okay, since I'm in a thought provoking mood today I pose this statement.

 

Science and religion try and provide answers for one simple question; Why are we here.

 

So, why are we here? I honestly can't think of any decent answer.

[Guest willismaximus]

Think JustGav nailed right on the head there for me.

 

I like to question everything, always have always will and that's probably why my view is what it is on this debate because as a kid at school and in church (Catholic school so i had no option.... don't like that either, i should be allowed to choose what i believe rather than have it thrust upon me) any answers i got to questions based around Religeon always seemed to end up posing more questions that couldn't be answered, that's just how i felt about it anyway.

[AndrewOW]

Is Firestorm the new DA?

[Scott]

Okay.. I'd like to say both sides are right...

 

Faith is based upon interpretation of human observed events, so is science. Faith'ists (new word there ) accept things more readily whereas scientists require emperical proof... well that is the idea anyway, HOWEVER it isn't as black and white as that, since science often requires faith and assumptions which are then proven to be true or false. My whole reason and I'm happy to state it, behind not being a faith'ist is I feel it has been twisted to suit the goals of whomever and absolute devotion without question, science relies on the fact that things are questioned.

 

If I'm wrong I guess I'll understand heat transfer much better down stairs

 

Science doesn't involve faith Gav, it involves probability. Theory's come from the most likely outcome and the most likely explanations.

 

Lets put it this way, i can't give credit to a name but, a guy took a yard stick, stuck it in the ground and calculated the circumference of the earth to within something ridiculous like 3m using only the sun because he had a theory. Now, "riddle me this batman", how do we know he was within 3m? Has someone actually went round the earth with a measuring tape?

 

A lot of facts come from theory's that are never actually proven, just backed up

 

BTW i'm backing what u say in this one as heaven, god, hell and all that baloney make no sense to me. The only sense religion ever made to me was power. If there is a god, a supreme being, an almighty presence, do you think he would want worshiped? Of course not. Its all about power and always will be about power. If you want to have faith in god, hell, heaven and all that then great. But why does there have to be rules involved?

[JustGav]

Think JustGav nailed right on the head there for me.

 

I like to question everything, always have always will and that's probably why my view is what it is on this debate because as a kid at school and in church (Catholic school so i had no option.... don't like that either, i should be allowed to choose what i believe rather than have it thrust upon me) any answers i got to questions based around Religeon always seemed to end up posing more questions that couldn't be answered, that's just how i felt about it anyway.

 

I was fortunate to have a rather odd childhood, in that I went to a Catholic school, a Jewish school, had CoE parents, and Muslim friends. My religious education at the catholic school last 1 week before I was told not to attend the class and that I could use it as study time. Like yourself I asked lots of questions and wasn't satisfied with the simple answer 'God created everything', I choose to look elsewhere for a reason for existance and to this day I'm still no wiser.

[JustGav]

Science doesn't involve faith Gav, it involves probability. Theory's come from the most likely outcome and the most likely explanations.

 

Lets put it this way, i can't give credit to a name but, a guy took a yard stick, stuck it in the ground and calculated the circumference of the earth to within something ridiculous like 3m using only the sun because he had a theory. Now, "riddle me this batman", how do we know he was within 3m? Has someone actually went round the earth with a measuring tape?

 

A lot of facts come from theory's that are never actually proven, just backed up

 

Perhaps the wrong usage of the word faith, I was attempting to suggest that scientist need to take a gamble on a theory (ie have faith in their theory)... bit abstract I know for 15:15... god^h^h^h(suitable higher power entity of your chosing ) damn I need to get out and fly my kite

 

PS : no offence taken, I do enjoy this sorts of adult debates because they help excersize the mind and also sometimes close the gap between faithists and scientists because their goal is one and the same really.

[AndrewOW]

Okay, since I'm in a thought provoking mood today I pose this statement.

 

Science and religion try and provide answers for one simple question; Why are we here.

 

So, why are we here? I honestly can't think of any decent answer.

 

 

42.

 

 

(Somebody had to say it!)

[Scott]

PS : no offence taken, I do enjoy this sorts of adult debates because they help excersize the mind and also sometimes close the gap between faithists and scientists because their goal is one and the same really.

 

Yup me too, its hard on a forum though as i jump and blurt out whats in my head a lot of the time i come accross as argumentative lol. I think in most of my quotes i am backing what the person is saying with my thoughts, although it comes out wrong lol.

 

Faithists, scientists.. big thumbs up. Like yourself i am a big supporter for open mindedness and allowing people to make up their own mind.

 

Religion massive thumbs down. Why is it that people aren't allowed to make up their own mind? They are told they are wrong without even so much as a reason other than "because god said so".

[Firestorm]

New DA? what? lol confused

 

let me first off say yes! i can tottaly understand why people see religion as money grabbing power inducing etc etc! cos for the most part IT IS! HOWEVER

 

when i cut through all the Cr*p i find a solace that i beleive and it helps me on a day to day basis. im not religious. but i have a faith. i hate people who stand on street corners and shout your gonna go to hell just as much as islamic terrorists.

 

i do have friends who beleive God created the Big Bang cos he could soo yeh thats alwasya theorey.

 

ooh i do love to a good debate

 

people are still missing my u can throw millions of stuff at me cos but have you ever actually done the tests? probably not.. you just beleive.. i think it wront to assume humans invented God cos you cant prove that either...

 

the reason i think we are here.. simple.. Free Will

[Jake]

Is Firestorm the new DA?

At least I could understand what DA was saying. Firestorm doesn't seem to be able to write a legible post.

[Scott]

New DA? what? lol confused

 

let me first off say yes! i can tottaly understand why people see religion as money grabbing power inducing etc etc! cos for the most part IT IS! HOWEVER

 

when i cut through all the Cr*p i find a solace that i beleive and it helps me on a day to day basis. im not religious. but i have a faith. i hate people who stand on street corners and shout your gonna go to hell just as much as islamic terrorists.

 

i do have friends who beleive God created the Big Bang cos he could soo yeh thats alwasya theorey.

 

ooh i do love to a good debate

 

people are still missing my u can throw millions of stuff at me cos but have you ever actually done the tests? probably not.. you just beleive.. i think it wront to assume humans invented God cos you cant prove that either...

 

the reason i think we are here.. simple.. Free Will

 

I can prove that humans invented the theory of god. I'll prove it to you right now with a simple question.

 

How did you learn of god?

 

Now, take that question and put yourself into every person in the world's shoes and show me someone who, honestly, doesn't say they learned of him through someone else. If noone can prove god exists, then god is a theory.

 

Correct?

[Firestorm]

yeh sorry ther mate im not 52 i grew up with technology! blame that grandpa! LOL

 

At least I could understand what DA was saying. Firestorm doesn't seem to be able to write a legible post.

[Firestorm]

yeh but thats like saying how do u know evolution exists cos u got told it. its null and void. we had to learn it sumtime.. jus cos man told it doesnt make it true. i guess that works both ways mind.

[tbourner]

There's evidence of evolution, there's no evidence of god.

[Jake]

yeh sorry ther mate im not 52 i grew up with technology! blame that grandpa! LOL

You grew up with technology? What has that got to do with you not being able to write properly?

You write like a four year old. I guess technology can't help you with that though.

[Firestorm]

there is speculation of evolution.. no one can prove it.. just like your saying you cant prove God.. thats faith dude.

[Firestorm]

ooh ouch..

 

You grew up with technology? What has that got to do with you not being able to write properly?

You write like a four year old. I guess technology can't help you with that though.

[AndrewOW]

There's evidence of evolution, there's no evidence of god.

 

 

We have a winner! Well said that man

[Scott]

yeh but thats like saying how do u know evolution exists cos u got told it. its null and void. we had to learn it sumtime.. jus cos man told it doesnt make it true. i guess that works both ways mind.

 

As i said, evolution is completely different from the "theory of evolution". Evolution is a description of life adaption. Its a fact, we have seen it happen over the centuries, there is (as above) proof through different families of animals.

 

Have u seen a mammoth? You don't think thats a descendant of an elephant? Why do you think we are getting less hairy? Same reason as the heffalumps... evolution.

 

Now, the theory of evolution (take that as the one word) is a completely different thing. Its a theory that has not been proven and has a lot of assumptions being made.

 

Theory of evolution = Charles Darwin

Actual Evolution = Fact

[Lbm]

God? Evolution?

We'll have no trouble here!

The Sky Daddy made us.

Fact.

[Firestorm]

cool okay lets say the theory we are talking about

 

i did say earlier that i didnt deny that.. growth i guess would be called evolving.. or a bud to a flower it evolves for that. i guess my particular debate lies with mr darwin.

 

ooh edit post here.. did anyone know that Darwin Denounced his theory towards the end of this life.. well thats what ive been told

 

As i said, evolution is completely different from the "theory of evolution". Evolution is a description of life adaption. Its a fact, we have seen it happen over the centuries, there is (as above) proof through different families of animals.

 

Have u seen a mammoth? You don't think thats a descendant of an elephant? Why do you think we are getting less hairy? Same reason as the heffalumps... evolution.

 

Now, the theory of evolution (take that as the one word) is a completely different thing. Its a theory that has not been proven and has a lot of assumptions being made.

 

Theory of evolution = Charles Darwin

Actual Evolution = Fact

[Scott]

cool okay lets say the theory we are talking about

 

i did say earlier that i didnt deny that.. growth i guess would be called evolving.. or a bud to a flower it evolves for that. i guess my particular debate lies with mr darwin.

 

Which brings me back to my prior point between scientists and faithists (is that a word?)

 

Anyway, there is a big difference between blind faith and theoretical faith.

 

I would describe people who believe in god as having blind faith. Now, there are good reasons to have that faith but they are all selfish reasons to make the individual feel better about any given situation. Death and heaven being the prime example.

 

Everyone is told there is a god from an early age. Everyone is told there is a santa clause from an early age. Saint Nicholaus was an actual guy, German i think, he was preached about in sermon's not so many years ago until christmas really took off (pre 60's i think). Santa was overtaking God in many childrens imagination so he is now no longer referred to in religious cermon's. If your interested i can tell u the true story of Saint Nicholaus, there are a few stories that go around but only 1 or 2 that are believed to be true.

 

Now, scientific theory is a whole other ballgame. Theory is built up on pieces of information. I'll give a simple example. What has four legs, a tail and barks? Obvious answer is a dog, without knowing its a dog its a theory or what scientists call an "educated guess". The reason its a theory or an educated guess is you have to learn what has four legs, what has a tail and what barks. If you were asked, what has four legs there are many theories but the answers are still based on fact.

[AndrewOW]

Have u seen a mammoth? You don't think thats a descendant of an elephant? Why do you think we are getting less hairy? Same reason as the heffalumps... evolution.

 

 

I did like that statement

 

I don't know the whole reason why we're less hairy than our furry ancestors, but maybe clothing has something to do with it.

 

I don't think the same applies to elephants really. Unless you've seen a clothing range for our rather large cousins?