My geometry & corner balancing day

[SteveR]

Cheers m8, ive not got adjustable platforms just Eibachs and 19's so should be a doddle for them to track it up and adjust the camber a tad

 

Jane the lady who dealt with my enquiery was very profesional so hope that continues

Jane is Chris' wife, they're both nice people to deal with. Have fun when you go in, say "hi" from me and tell him our trip to the Nurburgring was great, my geo setup was very confidence inspiring. (I can say that now I'm back lol)

[SteveR]

Nice write up Steve and thanks for the info, im gonna book mine in there soon as i get it back:)

Ash did the better write up, mine was exactly the same process so I just gave the short version. You won't be dissapointed with Chris' attention to detail; some of my bushes were seized (winter project to replace those I reckon) but despite that causing great annoyance & difficulty, check out how close to the target settings Chris managed to get (in the stuff I posted here). He's a perfectionist, I like people like that working on my car.

 

If you wanted an even gripper car than mine, it can easily be done, just be sure you know what you're doing with it as it'd be more tail happy and I wanted a season with it mild understeery. Changing the bushes will be a good excuse to go back and tweak that.

Edited August 9, 2008 by SteveR (see edit history)

[kint]

Very good info, Steve!Thanks for sharing that..

Doing the geo would obviously improve the handling..but,(excuse the hijack and lack of knowledge:D) would it improve the following?

On motorway,as I get over 120km(80 miles) my car feels very unstable -''wably'' kind of way..need to be very''awake to handle it and Im sure that shouldn't be:(.Also drive on everyday basis a '95 Celica and it feels more stabile,even on higher speeds.

Any ideas?

[ellis]

That sounds more like a wheel balance / bad tyre problem. I'd get your local Prik Fit to check over your tyres first then look at wheel balance. Doesn't need to be far out to make a difference at speed.

[JamieP]

Ash did the better write up, mine was exactly the same process so I just gave the short version. You won't be dissapointed with Chris' attention to detail; some of my bushes were seized (winter project to replace those I reckon) but despite that causing great annoyance & difficulty, check out how close to the target settings Chris managed to get (in the stuff I posted here). He's a perfectionist, I like people like that working on my car.

 

If you wanted an even gripper car than mine, it can easily be done, just be sure you know what you're doing with it as it'd be more tail happy and I wanted a season with it mild understeery. Changing the bushes will be a good excuse to go back and tweak that.

 

Cheers, ill get all the bushes checked before i go.

[SteveR]

Very good info, Steve!Thanks for sharing that..

Doing the geo would obviously improve the handling..but,(excuse the hijack and lack of knowledge:D) would it improve the following?

On motorway,as I get over 120km(80 miles) my car feels very unstable -''wably'' kind of way..need to be very''awake to handle it and Im sure that shouldn't be:(.Also drive on everyday basis a '95 Celica and it feels more stabile,even on higher speeds.

Any ideas?

Is the front of your car higher than the rear? That would cause this effect as the air passing under teh car would start trying to lift it off the road. Having the rear higher will avio this, and may even provide a smidge of downforce, Vs a 'flat' setup (equal ride height front & rear). Also Bignum reckons he had a light feeling car when driving at higher speeds without the undertray; it affects the aerodynamics of the car also. Is yours fitted?

[Luxluc]

Very good info, Steve!Thanks for sharing that..

Doing the geo would obviously improve the handling..but,(excuse the hijack and lack of knowledge:D) would it improve the following?

On motorway,as I get over 120km(80 miles) my car feels very unstable -''wably'' kind of way..need to be very''awake to handle it and Im sure that shouldn't be:(.Also drive on everyday basis a '95 Celica and it feels more stabile,even on higher speeds.

Any ideas?

 

 

First question : what tyre size are you running front and rear. Generally, 19 inchers with low rubber height (serie 35 or 30) will make the car much more sensitive to road surface imperfections. You will then have to be more "awake" during main road cruising.

 

Another point : 2 years ago, I remarked one day that my Supe was very unstable, which was very noticable on rainy roads. After a complete check, I found that 1 rear spring was partially broken (not completely) and caused oversteer on small bumps even when driving at low speed (no exterior sign was seen ... like the car being lower on that part). Afer having replaced the spring, everything was fine again.

[kint]

Is the front of your car higher than the rear? That would cause this effect as the air passing under teh car would start trying to lift it off the road. Having the rear higher will avio this, and may even provide a smidge of downforce, Vs a 'flat' setup (equal ride height front & rear). Also Bignum reckons he had a light feeling car when driving at higher speeds without the undertray; it affects the aerodynamics of the car also. Is yours fitted?

My car is still on standard suspension..I don't know ..it doesn't seem to be higher(the front) but I'll try to find out when I'll pay a visit to my local wheel guy.The undertray is in place

 

That sounds more like a wheel balance / bad tyre problem. I'd get your local Prik Fit to check over your tyres first then look at wheel balance. Doesn't need to be far out to make a difference at speed.

The tyres are new and..I hope it'll be just that(balancing)

 

First question : what tyre size are you running front and rear. Generally, 19 inchers with low rubber height (serie 35 or 30) will make the car much more sensitive to road surface imperfections. You will then have to be more "awake" during main road cruising.

 

Another point : 2 years ago, I remarked one day that my Supe was very unstable, which was very noticable on rainy roads. After a complete check, I found that 1 rear spring was partially broken (not completely) and caused oversteer on small bumps even when driving at low speed (no exterior sign was seen ... like the car being lower on that part). Afer having replaced the spring, everything was fine again.

 

Rear 275/35/18

Front245/40/18

I didn't notice that in the city, where you'd normally get several road imperfections..it's happening rather on motorway where road surface imperfections aren't that many..

Will b checking the springs,too, thanks for the tip

[kint]

Is the front of your car higher than the rear? That would cause this effect as the air passing under teh car would start trying to lift it off the road. Having the rear higher will avio this, and may even provide a smidge of downforce, Vs a 'flat' setup (equal ride height front & rear). Also Bignum reckons he had a light feeling car when driving at higher speeds without the undertray; it affects the aerodynamics of the car also. Is yours fitted?

My car is still on standard suspension..I don't know ..it doesn't seem to be higher(the front) but I'll try to find out when I'll pay a visit to my local wheel guy.The undertray is in place

 

That sounds more like a wheel balance / bad tyre problem. I'd get your local Prik Fit to check over your tyres first then look at wheel balance. Doesn't need to be far out to make a difference at speed.

The tyres are new and..I hope it'll be just that(balancing)

 

First question : what tyre size are you running front and rear. Generally, 19 inchers with low rubber height (serie 35 or 30) will make the car much more sensitive to road surface imperfections. You will then have to be more "awake" during main road cruising.

 

Another point : 2 years ago, I remarked one day that my Supe was very unstable, which was very noticable on rainy roads. After a complete check, I found that 1 rear spring was partially broken (not completely) and caused oversteer on small bumps even when driving at low speed (no exterior sign was seen ... like the car being lower on that part). Afer having replaced the spring, everything was fine again.

 

Rear 275/35/18

Front245/40/18

I didn't notice that in the city, where you'd normally get several road imperfections..it's happening rather on motorway where road surface imperfections aren't that many..

Will b checking the springs,too, thanks for the tip

[dandan]

Doh!

 

No I didn't, I will do tomorrow. Not much else I can do with this rain we're having.

 

Any luck yet Steve? Will you be able to do it with your weight in the car so we can get a picture how she sits "ready to roll"?

[dandan]

Doh!

 

No I didn't, I will do tomorrow. Not much else I can do with this rain we're having.

 

Any luck yet Steve? Will you be able to do it with your weight in the car so we can get a picture how she sits "ready to roll"?

[SteveR]

Any luck yet Steve? Will you be able to do it with your weight in the car so we can get a picture how she sits "ready to roll"?

Yep I did it yesterday and sneakily updated the first post

Approx 36cm front & 37cm rear, measured from the centre of the wheel to the first bit of wing vertically above it.

[SteveR]

Any luck yet Steve? Will you be able to do it with your weight in the car so we can get a picture how she sits "ready to roll"?

Yep I did it yesterday and sneakily updated the first post

Approx 36cm front & 37cm rear, measured from the centre of the wheel to the first bit of wing vertically above it.

[SteveR]

I didn't notice that in the city, where you'd normally get several road imperfections..it's happening rather on motorway where road surface imperfections aren't that many..

Will b checking the springs,too, thanks for the tip

The other thing it could be is a crap geometry setup. If you're running uneven, or LOTS of toe, I believe, (or -thinking aloud- little caster??) then you can have interesting handling at speed, as one side of the car occasionally gets more grip than the other and will want to shift the car diagonally across the road.

 

Get it baselined to see what you've currently got?

[SteveR]

I didn't notice that in the city, where you'd normally get several road imperfections..it's happening rather on motorway where road surface imperfections aren't that many..

Will b checking the springs,too, thanks for the tip

The other thing it could be is a crap geometry setup. If you're running uneven, or LOTS of toe, I believe, (or -thinking aloud- little caster??) then you can have interesting handling at speed, as one side of the car occasionally gets more grip than the other and will want to shift the car diagonally across the road.

 

Get it baselined to see what you've currently got?

[Nic]

On motorway,as I get over 120km(80 miles) my car feels very unstable -''wably'' kind of way..need to be very''awake to handle it and Im sure that shouldn't be:(.Also drive on everyday basis a '95 Celica and it feels more stabile,even on higher speeds.

Any ideas?

 

Could be geometry, tyres, or worn suspension bushes/joints. There must be a lot of Supras on the road now with less than perfect handling. I replaced all the suspension components on my own car a few years ago and it made MASSIVE difference to the handling, ride quality and grip levels.

 

I would get the car on a ramp and get all the bushes and joints checked over for excessive play. They are not cheap to replace, but for the difference it made to mine, it is by far THE best money I have spent on my car in 9 years of ownership.

 

Good write up here by Ian

 

http://mkivsupra.net/vbb/showthread.php?t=119349

[SteveR]

I forgot about that thread Nic, thanks for the link - I just posted on it.

[Dnk]

Jane is Chris' wife, they're both nice people to deal with. Have fun when you go in, say "hi" from me and tell him our trip to the Nurburgring was great, my geo setup was very confidence inspiring. (I can say that now I'm back lol)

 

Had a very interesting day with Chris & Jane, passed on your regards and he was really chuffed that your happy with your car, as you say there both very nice people and i couldnt fault anything other than my car

4 bolts were siezed solid so we couldnt do cambers properly on the front or the rear, i'll post my report but till i do its roughly as below, afraid ive left it in my car doh so im trying to remember all the numbers

 

2 degrees of negative camber on fronts

3 mins of toe in on each front

cant remember the castor but think it was 3 degrees 20 minutes,

 

not so great on rears as we couldnt move anything chris certainly tried every way possible to free off the offending bolts but to no avail, the track is out along with the n/s/r having more camber than the o/s/r about 50 minutes which isnt great, ive just got prices off Steve Manley for all new camber adjusters front and rear along with new bushes (powerflex i think) ouch not cheap for the bolts !

Think i'll see if Nic can do them any cheaper

 

Did you get the island test drive Steve ?

Edited August 12, 2008 by Dnk (see edit history)

[Dnk]

Some pics of the day

[SteveR]

That's a shame. I'm in a similar position as a couple of my bolts/bushes were siezed solid (why they are not greased when they are put in annoyed Chris and then me when I realised how much it'd cost in time & effort (and re-geo-ing) to replace...)

Chris managed to introduce some shear into them to get the desired settings, but obviously that's a short/medium term fix and I'll need to do something about it longer term. I feel a winter project coming on.

 

Chris reckoned he could change the bushes, but i read a post in another thread somewhere on here where Chris Wilson says it isn't worth the hassle. I'm a little torn on what to do; but either way it'll be Winter at the earliest before I can afford to do anything/would be ok about the car being off the road for an extended period.

 

Did you get the island test drive Steve ?

Yes, and then some extended testing where Chris scared/delighted me in equal measure! (we're going to die -then- oh wow we didn't, my car is awesome! )

 

I think I was doing 26mph round that roundabout befoe the front started to understeer. THat was in light drizzle - it looks fron the photos like you had rain too?

[Dnk]

That's a shame. I'm in a similar position as a couple of my bolts/bushes were siezed solid (why they are not greased when they are put in annoyed Chris and then me when I realised how much it'd cost in time & effort (and re-geo-ing) to replace...)

Chris managed to introduce some shear into them to get the desired settings, but obviously that's a short/medium term fix and I'll need to do something about it longer term. I feel a winter project coming on.

 

Chris reckoned he could change the bushes, but i read a post in another thread somewhere on here where Chris Wilson says it isn't worth the hassle. I'm a little torn on what to do; but either way it'll be Winter at the earliest before I can afford to do anything/would be ok about the car being off the road for an extended period.

 

 

Yes, and then some extended testing where Chris scared/delighted me in equal measure! (we're going to die -then- oh wow we didn't, my car is awesome! )

 

I think I was doing 26mph round that roundabout befoe the front started to understeer. THat was in light drizzle - it looks fron the photos like you had rain too?

 

I was considering re bushing the wishbones but think i'll fit new complete arms and job done even if it is a bit costly.

 

The island test is fun lol, 27 mph was the max we got round it after the 4th lap and it was damp or moist my struggle at the moment is trying to get new Conti sports for the front as the fronts on the car are rather worn out.

[Homer]

Dunk, I can probably get you some 2nd hand bolts and camber adjusters for next to nothing. They're on a non-damaged supra thats in a local scrap yard. Let me know if you're interested and I'll try and get them off in the next visit.

[AndyT]

Steve, what suspension do you have fitted?

 

Shocks and springs that is.

 

Thanks in advance.

 

Andy.

[Dnk]

Dunk, I can probably get you some 2nd hand bolts and camber adjusters for next to nothing. They're on a non-damaged supra thats in a local scrap yard. Let me know if you're interested and I'll try and get them off in the next visit.

 

Thats really good of you Homer but think you could be in for a shock when you try to get them off, i was supprised how bad mine were.

Seeing as all these parts on my car are 14 yrs old with 122k on them, 40k of that on wide 19's i think i'll dig deep and just get new everything, got a decent quote off my old race team to fit them so not too painfull

 

Thanks again

[Homer]

Thats really good of you Homer but think you could be in for a shock when you try to get them off, i was supprised how bad mine were.

Seeing as all these parts on my car are 14 yrs old with 122k on them, 40k of that on wide 19's i think i'll dig deep and just get new everything, got a decent quote off my old race team to fit them so not too painfull

 

Thanks again

 

Don't worry mate, done it dozens of times, but thankfully on cars that haven't had seized bolts! The ones on the parts car are fine as I had to losen a few to get other bits off. Let me know if you're interested and I'll try and get them for you.

 

I wonder if your ones are frozen due to the extra stress of the wider wheels/offsets? Will be interesting to know if they are slightly bent once you finally get them out (only takes a fraction of a mm!)