Scott Posted July 10, 2008 Share Posted July 10, 2008 (edited) I went out to check on the car and have another look as i am not making any boost. The thing ran as rough as a badgers (it seemed fine before) so i decided to have a look at the leads etc to see if i could suss it. I took off the 2nd plug and it ran just the same so i'm thinking i might be running without 1 or more cylinders. Firstly, how many cylinders would allow the car to run, just very badly. Next, could that possibly be anything to do with my car not making any boost? Lastly, 2 of the clips have dissintegrated.... who is the best to buy off of? Sorry that this is a bit of a continuation of my ongoing problems but i felt it was different enough to ask a different question. Also my other thread went a bit stale and i wasn't really getting any help towards the end. Thanks Edited July 16, 2008 by Scott New video added (see edit history) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Homer Posted July 10, 2008 Share Posted July 10, 2008 If the coil pack connectors are disintigrating thats the very first thing you should sort out, swap the lot. More than likely this is the cause of the misfire. Paul Whiffin keeps these in stock and they're a good price too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Posted July 10, 2008 Author Share Posted July 10, 2008 Arghhh just got some stuff in today that i ordered from Paul. Ok then, i guess a full set it is Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Posted July 16, 2008 Author Share Posted July 16, 2008 (edited) Ok, sorted out the coilpack clips and now its running much the same as it was before the turbo's went other than the turbo's still not working. I've managed to get a video of the boost so i hope someone can point me in the right direction. My guess is that the turbo's are gone, will it be expensive for a garage to check if i am right or are there some other things i can check myself? Thanks again... I'm on WOT from 18 seconds on and i'm in 2nd gear and i take it to around 6krpm. g4eUio0vtBQ Edited July 16, 2008 by Scott (see edit history) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TurboBrett Posted July 16, 2008 Share Posted July 16, 2008 i couldnt say for sure but it is making boost and doesnt sound like a bag of bolts in a tumble dryer, to me says turbo's are in the clear. looks like a split pipe or serious leak, my first checks would be... 1) sort the running (coil pack clips, plugs...) i think you have already done this 2) check the waste gate on number one turbo..if its stuck open the turbo wont create boost and wont be able to bring the second tubbie online 3) check for leaks between the output of tubbies and throttle body 4) if still no joy, look for shrapnel in the exhaust system (first cat if you have one) EDIT: btw i have not read your other thread (well i dont think lol ) so if thats already been covered sorry:) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Posted July 16, 2008 Author Share Posted July 16, 2008 i couldnt say for sure but it is making boost and doesnt sound like a bag of bolts in a tumble dryer, to me says turbo's are in the clear. looks like a split pipe or serious leak, my first checks would be... 1) sort the running (coil pack clips, plugs...) i think you have already done this Yip sorted that 2) check the waste gate on number one turbo..if its stuck open the turbo wont create boost and wont be able to bring the second tubbie online I was told there is no 1st turbo wastegate (i think)? I was told there is a wastegate to redirect boost from the 1st turbo to the 2nd but not to atmos. How do i go about checking this? 3) check for leaks between the output of tubbies and throttle body I disconnected the intercooler pipe from the turbo and put my hand over it. This stalled the car so i'm guessing there are no leaks. Any leaks would have allowed the car to run (i think) 4) if still no joy, look for shrapnel in the exhaust system (first cat if you have one) I checked in the exhaust but couldn't find anything. I have a de-cat pipe. Also, its been like this for a couple of weeks now and i've driven it a few times so i guess any shrapnel would be well and truely gone. EDIT: btw i have not read your other thread (well i dont think lol ) so if thats already been covered sorry:) Thanks for the help Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jevansio Posted July 16, 2008 Share Posted July 16, 2008 (edited) With regard to 3) Scotster, if there was a small hole, under boost it would let a lot of air out, where as disconnecting that pipe you talked of & blocking it with your hand is like immediately asking the engine to breath through that small hole, it may well die. Is it possible that under boost the hole is opening, yet it's not allowing much air in the opposite direction when you block that pipe? Do you know what I mean? Also what about maybe knackered BOV that is just leaking constantly? Edited July 16, 2008 by jevansio (see edit history) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Posted July 16, 2008 Author Share Posted July 16, 2008 With regard to 3) Scotster, if there was a small hole, under boost it would let a lot of air out, where as disconnecting that pipe you talked of & blocking it with your hand is like immediately asking the engine to breath through that small hole, it may well die. Is it possible that under boost the hole is opening, yet it's not allowing much air in the opposite direction when you block that pipe? Do you know what I mean? Also what about maybe knackered BOV that is just leaking constantly? I took my BOV off and it didn't make a difference but i didn't block it off very well (Just used tape lol). I'm going to try plugging it up fully. Ok, now for a dumb question...... When just starting the engine, how hot will the turbo positive air be? I'm thinking that i could disconnect the pipe again, put my hand over the turbo to intercooler pipe and see how much positive pressure i get while revving. I was thinking that if its a lot then i obviously have a leak, i was just worried that i might burn my hand off lol. Next thing, the turbo isn't spooling up anywhere near as much as it used to and i was under the impression that on WOT at high RPM's the wastegate being open wouldn't stop the turbo from making positive boost. As you can see from the vid at 6k rpm i'm making no +ive boost although its not -ive. Thanks for the help Jay, keep it coming guys. I do have a little money saved away as i had a re-spray planned along with new bumper and overfenders, i just don't want to blow it all on diagnosis if i can do it myself. Oh, a little OT but how much should i expect to pay to have the turbo's changed if the worst comes to the worst? I don't really have any space to do it myself as my driveway is too crampt and the lane outside is private/residential so other people need to use it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
d_d Posted July 16, 2008 Share Posted July 16, 2008 If it is worst case and the turbo has gone, expect a fair wack. When i rebuilt my engine after putting it all back together i later found i had no 2nd turbo. The majority of the cost is labour involved because its a real pig to get them off. Does it feel like you have the first tubbie? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TurboBrett Posted July 16, 2008 Share Posted July 16, 2008 Next thing, the turbo isn't spooling up anywhere near as much as it used to and i was under the impression that on WOT at high RPM's the wastegate being open wouldn't stop the turbo from making positive boost. As you can see from the vid at 6k rpm i'm making no +ive boost although its not -ive. if you think of the waste gate a throttle..if it is half open the engine only produces half power (in a simple world) now imagine the waste gate is stuck half open.... the turbo only see's half its original 'power' and will as such only accelerate with half the effort (you following?) so its spool up will seem really slow or laggy and possibly not achieve full boost lol sorry forgot what i was trying to say:d but this bit might help in your diagnostics Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Posted July 16, 2008 Author Share Posted July 16, 2008 if you think of the waste gate a throttle..if it is half open the engine only produces half power (in a simple world) now imagine the waste gate is stuck half open.... the turbo only see's half its original 'power' and will as such only accelerate with half the effort (you following?) so its spool up will seem really slow or laggy and possibly not achieve full boost lol sorry forgot what i was trying to say:d but this bit might help in your diagnostics Not making any boost though, in 3rd the 2nd turbo tries to come in and i see around .2bar Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Posted July 16, 2008 Author Share Posted July 16, 2008 If it is worst case and the turbo has gone, expect a fair wack. When i rebuilt my engine after putting it all back together i later found i had no 2nd turbo. The majority of the cost is labour involved because its a real pig to get them off. Does it feel like you have the first tubbie? Check the video, i got nothing lol. Around 0.2bar at best. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TurboBrett Posted July 16, 2008 Share Posted July 16, 2008 i would have a fiddle with your waste gate before going any further, i can only think of 3 possible faults, stuck waste gate, big leak or turbo with dead bearings although i would have thought the latter would make a lot of noise Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Posted July 16, 2008 Author Share Posted July 16, 2008 i would have a fiddle with your waste gate before going any further, i can only think of 3 possible faults, stuck waste gate, big leak or turbo with dead bearings although i would have thought the latter would make a lot of noise How do i check those things though. I know loads of things that could be wrong but i don't know how to check them No noise, and the car runs fine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TurboBrett Posted July 16, 2008 Share Posted July 16, 2008 i was looking around for pics to be able to explain...and came across this thread..Click here problem number 4 number 12 in that pic is the waste gate actuator, behind that will be the waste gate valve and a connecting rod between the two, firmly but gently pulling the rod back and forward should show if its stuck or not i have my fingers crossed for you! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Posted July 16, 2008 Author Share Posted July 16, 2008 Ok, i checked the one at the back of the engine a few days ago. It took a bit of tension but it did move, i'm guessing this one should be the same? Thanks for the info Brett i'll give this a go tomorrow! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TurboBrett Posted July 16, 2008 Share Posted July 16, 2008 yeah should be similar feel but maybe different tension:) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Homer Posted July 16, 2008 Share Posted July 16, 2008 Even if the waste gate is stuck wide open, under WOT at >4krpm in 3rd gear you should still see max target boost, be it 0.8 or 1.2 bar. It makes no difference what the waste gate is doing at this load. If it's open you'll always see high boost as the wastegate is fully open at >4krpm on high load anyway. Sorry Scotster, but it's either a major boost leak or you've lost a turbo. I can't think of another explanation given the symptoms. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Posted July 17, 2008 Author Share Posted July 17, 2008 Even if the waste gate is stuck wide open, under WOT at >4krpm in 3rd gear you should still see max target boost, be it 0.8 or 1.2 bar. It makes no difference what the waste gate is doing at this load. If it's open you'll always see high boost as the wastegate is fully open at >4krpm on high load anyway. Yeah thats what i thought, i don't see 0.8 in 3rd i only see about 0.5 max. Sorry Scotster, but it's either a major boost leak or you've lost a turbo. I can't think of another explanation given the symptoms. If turbo 1 is lost would that give me the symptoms i have? Thanks again Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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