JamieP Posted July 2, 2008 Share Posted July 2, 2008 Its good to hear everyones thoughts on there singles, mine was a bit of a pita with a few things but still loved every min of it, going to keep things a lot more sensible this time round. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pig Posted July 2, 2008 Share Posted July 2, 2008 Supra dan, whats your budget? And how much extra have you got for things that might go wrong? Im running 500-550 @ 1.45 bar. And IMO its NOT a daily driver when single. Not being able to take it over 3k until the oil heats up is a perfect example of something that isnt practical. Oh and to the guy that said 500 bhp is slow, have you ever driven a properly setup single? Edit: I would suggest building strong and running low. e.g my rev limit is only 7k but "could" run more on my built engine if i wanted but dont want to take any risks. It means i can push the car without worrying. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
supra dan Posted July 2, 2008 Author Share Posted July 2, 2008 rob thats the kind of thing i was thinking about. nice reliable 500 bhp with the option of upgrading more later on. why did you ditch the e manage, not up to the job? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
supra dan Posted July 2, 2008 Author Share Posted July 2, 2008 Supra dan, whats your budget? And how much extra have you got for things that might go wrong i dont have a budget as yet and things have already gone wrong my engine block is cracked so i am getting a new short block and having the head rebuilt. i dont want to bolt my old stock ceramics back as i fear they will blow my new engine. as you can see the engine wont be cheap as it is, so do i spend more on single or hybrids? what rob has done is very much what i was thinking. just want a fast reliable car that drives like stock and starts first time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pig Posted July 2, 2008 Share Posted July 2, 2008 Are you going to build the head? E.g new springs and valves? The parts are not expensive so might be worth looking into. What about bottom end? Are you changing the pistons or rods? jon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wez Posted July 2, 2008 Share Posted July 2, 2008 How did you crack the block? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fastisnice Posted July 2, 2008 Share Posted July 2, 2008 I disagree with Ian C, 500bhp is not that fast! Is it going to be enough for the street? maybe for a while, but chances are that you are going to want more. IMO it's never going to be enough and the required budget will never stop going upwards. If you ask me, 500 bhp is NOT fast - it's "kinda fast'ish" but thats it.. I guess it depends on your personality, but to simply say it's plenty fast is really not something you should (or could) do. I know I would be VERY dissapointed if someone would tell me that, to simply find out 10K later that it wasn't what I expected at all. For some people 500 may do it, for others not even 1000bhp will be enough. 500bhp is slow anything above 600-650 starts getting interesting! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gaz1 Posted July 2, 2008 Share Posted July 2, 2008 mine was a massive struggle to get right, i find it much more responsive than the gt4088 i had before, it lacks a little top end speed over the 40/88 though, but i do have i car that is blisteringly fast it is very useable around the street, its a tad over 600 but to be honest i would not like anymore power, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fastisnice Posted July 2, 2008 Share Posted July 2, 2008 Are you going to build the head? E.g new springs and valves? The parts are not expensive so might be worth looking into. What about bottom end? Are you changing the pistons or rods? jon Just get a ready built short block from PHR, one of the best quality comp in the US. Will cost you so much less than to buy the parts separate & find a decent reliable mechanic(labour as well)+ machine shop. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
supra dan Posted July 2, 2008 Author Share Posted July 2, 2008 Are you going to build the head? E.g new springs and valves? The parts are not expensive so might be worth looking into. What about bottom end? Are you changing the pistons or rods? jon no just a new stock bottom end and reseat the valves, skim and new seals, depending on everything being ok when the machine shop strip it How did you crack the block? wish i knew wez. i thought it was head gasket as loads of white smoke and mayo in the oil, but the head and gasket were fine but no 3 cylinder had a very small crack Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pig Posted July 2, 2008 Share Posted July 2, 2008 Just get a ready built short block from PHR, one of the best quality comp in the US. Will cost you so much less than to buy the parts separate & find a decent reliable mechanic(labour as well)+ machine shop. Prob a good shout. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
supra dan Posted July 2, 2008 Author Share Posted July 2, 2008 remember when the car first went into the garage i was hoping the bill would be under £500 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
razza Posted July 2, 2008 Share Posted July 2, 2008 remember when the car first went into the garage i was hoping the bill would be under £500 we all hope that, sadly for most of us it isn't the case:( good luck with your project:) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rob wild Posted July 2, 2008 Share Posted July 2, 2008 (edited) rob thats the kind of thing i was thinking about. nice reliable 500 bhp with the option of upgrading more later on. why did you ditch the e manage, not up to the job? Well TBH Dan there is two schools of though tbh here one is that you follow the route i did on the first set up then IF its ok for you then leave/maintain the car else its a spring board to the next level i.e. moving onto the next stage similar to mine and many many others. The one thing that i would not scrimp on is the turbo kit buddy! Don't not buy cheap cr*p! I very nearly did as at the time when i was doing mine a place call turbofit was all the rage and they were selling/installing xs power stuff and people seemed to happy! Unfortunately for them this stuff turned out to be rubbish Some people have said that the PHR stage 1 turbo that im using is a bit old fashion but i have found it very good for what i need i.e. positive boost by 2k and full boost by just over 3k. As far as the e manage / ecu is concern I cant stress the importance of a good map! Seriously when I first got the car back when it had been mapped by Ryan G up at Michel Lanes place it was like having my old BPU back only 100 times better! Now to be fair to the emanage a lot of it comes down to who can map them in the first place but a good standalone ecu that has been well mapped is so important! If it was me I would probably do the following: Get the car properly checked over! I mean everything! and make sure it can handle the extra power! If its ok then as far as core single components go I would probably buy the following:- PHR stage 1 or PHR street kit using a cast manifold £1800-2100 720cc dropins £400ish Ryan G mapping £500-1000 ECU:- AEM or whatever he recommends but £1100ish Also i dont know if you have but before i parted with any money at all i would get down to all the local meets and see if anyone would take you out in their set up! and try as many as you can! If your ever over this way your more than welcome to have a spin in mine although im sure there many that would argue that they have a better setup All just IMO Edited July 2, 2008 by rob wild (see edit history) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
supra dan Posted July 2, 2008 Author Share Posted July 2, 2008 cheers rob good advice. amazing how opinions differ, its like the tech discussion from the old days we all hope that, sadly for most of us it isn't the case:( good luck with your project:) thanks razza, i think i will need it:help: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kim1978 Posted July 4, 2008 Share Posted July 4, 2008 in my book it is not worth going through all the single-hassle and install none OEM parts just to get to 500bhp when you can get to 450bhp while staying bpu and adding a few +++ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tooquicktostop Posted July 4, 2008 Share Posted July 4, 2008 in my book it is not worth going through all the single-hassle and install none OEM parts just to get to 500bhp when you can get to 450bhp while staying bpu and adding a few +++ But going BPU is adding non OEM parts and running non OEM boost, plus 450 BHP is running a lot of non OEM boost on stock turbos, a well set up 500 BHP single will be more or equally reliable as a '450bhp!' BPU car in the long run IMO of course Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tricky-Ricky Posted July 4, 2008 Share Posted July 4, 2008 Off topic, but 450 on anything but good hybrids is my little dyno territory:p even hybrids are working hard at that power level, the point of a single is that you are pushing so much more air for the same boost, you can easily make 500bhp at 0.9bar with the right turbo;) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
supra dan Posted July 4, 2008 Author Share Posted July 4, 2008 i see what kim means tho, maybe not worth the thousands of pounds for not that much gain. its a valid point Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muffleman Posted July 4, 2008 Share Posted July 4, 2008 Is 550bhp too much for the road ? 400bhp can be too much for the road car if the handling and geometry is crap As for my single, well I've had it a couple of years or so and the only issue I have had were as a result of mapping. Had the engine built by a proper engine builder last year and so far I have had no issues. A single'd car is a far simpler setup than a TT so providing it's installed thoughtfully and properly, there's no reason to expect any issues. , the point of a single is that you are pushing so much more air for the same boost, you can easily make 500bhp at 0.9bar with the right turbo;) Indeed, I'm only at 0.5bar at the moment (although not for long ), and I've taken people out in my car recently and they have been somewhat impressed by the power. Then I tell them it's only at .5bar, it would be fair to say they are shocked Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kim1978 Posted July 6, 2008 Share Posted July 6, 2008 But going BPU is adding non OEM parts and running non OEM boost, plus 450 BHP is running a lot of non OEM boost on stock turbos, a well set up 500 BHP single will be more or equally reliable as a '450bhp!' BPU car in the long run IMO of course with BPU you would be still running stock twins, stock fuel, stock clutch and you will avoid tuning and labor costs as BPU is pretty much DIY if you are somewhat technically gifted. And most important, you get to keep the stock reliability with BPU which imo you won't do with a single supra. To forgo all that just for 50bph more.....well, that is something each one of us have to decide. From a cost perspective you can BPU+++ your supra with high quality gear for less than £1,000 by checking the for-sale section and being patient. just my $0.02 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ian C Posted July 17, 2008 Share Posted July 17, 2008 Minor resurrection because it's actually a good techie discussion The power debate: OK you won't want much more than 600bhp, anyway Maybe I typo'd 500bhp seeing as I find a T61 at 1.4bar a bit flat The way I see it though, once you start getting tyre slip accelerating in 3rd gear on a dry day with Pirelli P0's, you've probably got enough power for a road car perhaps? Going another 100bhp above that means you are really chancing the stock engine, you'll probably want a more evil clutch, maybe a bigger turbo so more laggy and less nice to drive, or work the existing one real hard raising intake temps and increasing problems around cooling and subsequent detonation issues, and even popping off hoses. And the end result? OK it'll accelerate harder in 4th gear + but you're doing 90mph when you change into 4th... in 3rd it'll wheelspin even more so it's a bit of a 'mare to drive or you utilise RLTC a lot which, in the end, lowers the power... So what's the point? When 0 to 90mph acceleration speed is limited purely by mechanical grip, more power isn't what you're after. Big numbers are always chased after though, we're blokes But I maintain that a street car needs to be driveable and fun. Anyone who gets proven huge numbers, fair play to them, but I like my area under the curve as well - getting a surge of torque at 3500rpm is a great feeling and makes the car effortless to drive, and you've got 3000+rpm of powerband to use if you want. Stockers vs Single Oh my this is a timeless classic With good hybrids, FMIC, cams, 550cc injectors at least, and a decent fuel pump, plus the electronics to sort it and a good base car, good condition cooling etc. you'll probably then push 450bhp. Your average BPU setup will be less than that, I assure you (no matter how many +'s you add on the end ). Water injection might help but to be honest at those boost levels out of those turbos you should use WI as a safety measure to combat intake charge temps and not try to wind additional performance out of it. I used to be a big fan of the sequential system but in the last year or two I've found myself genuinely wondering what's wrong with someone's car as it feels flat and slow and frankly broken! Then I realise that we haven't hit 4000rpm yet and are only running on one turbo. Hm. There is that artificial lag point of 4000rpm in every gear, ew. And that's when the sequential system works properly That sounds harsher than it I mean it to be But a valid point I think is that when single turbo'd you no longer have a jam-packed hotside of the engine bay with hoses, pipes, VSVs, actuators, and one of the crappiest jobs in the Supra world if a turbo needs removing. I don't think anyone going from sorted 450bhp hybrids to sorted 550bhp single turbo would be disappointed with the results or want to go back. It reminds me of prop engine vs jet engine on aeroplanes - the first jet engines were slated by prop afficionados because they were actually slower than some of the best propellor powered planes. But prop capabilities were at their zenith, jet engines were only going to get better in leaps and bounds.... -Ian Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dangerous brain Posted July 17, 2008 Share Posted July 17, 2008 Very very good post that Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
supra dan Posted July 17, 2008 Author Share Posted July 17, 2008 it is indeed. cost is a big factor also tho. do you go for 450 or spend an extra 5 grand for an extra 100 bhp ? thing is with a single you can have what ever you want, fast road or drag lag monster.being easier to work on is also a big plus. i still cant decide Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paul mac Posted July 17, 2008 Share Posted July 17, 2008 totally agree with Ians Post, with regard to the single versus BPU debate i would say if you are not able to do the single conversion yourself and probably more important be prepared to constantly look after the engine on virtually a weekly basis then forget it, unless you have very deep pockets, the five grand quoted for the conversion is just the start of it with the extra power things will start to break and wear out a lot quicker, oh and dont forget the petrol consumption which is horrendous, having said all that would i trade my T61 for hybrids.................not a chance Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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