2JZ-GTE exhaust header drawings

[UK Supra TT]

Hi all,

 

I want to design my own t4 turbo manifold, does anyone have access to drawings of the exhaust ports on the 2jz-gte engine? other wise it means me taking my manifold and everything, or does anyone know who or how i could get hold of these drawings?

 

Cheers all, Jon

[Wez]

You could ask around for an old stock exhaust manifold, there should be some around with the number of single conversions about.

[Chris Wilson]

Just use a pair of manifold to head gaskets and measure the stud spacing between the pairings. There must be loads of scrap single turbo tubular manifolds about, too, that have cracked. The market needs a good tubular manifold with proper wastegate and turbo support, and proper wastegate to down pipe plumbing, IMO. It's probably too late now for a viable commercial effort though.

[UK Supra TT]

Cheers for the fast response guys, i've actually gone single turbo already, got an xspower manifold but it's not the best, and since i've recently learnt solidworks and a mate of mine works for an aerospace pipe manufacturing company they can make it directly from my design taking my file in directly, might even have it made out of something exotic like titanium, since they do formula 1 titanium manifolds there. Like you say need something with decent ext wastegate support, is it best to plum into the downpipe for the wastegate then, mine presently vents to atmosphere.

 

Another thing since i've got your attention, i'm buying a new turbo next month, was thinking of a turbonetics T72, don't want to spend mega money since i can't! my budget's roughly £1000 and i want the best i can get for that really, any thoughts?

 

Cheers

[Chris Wilson]

Can't you use the XS Power as a runner and flange pattern and have it made in Inconel? (That's what the F1 ones are made of). With supports and decent material it should work fine. Good luck, sounds a neat project!

[kylestt]

You may want to research on wastegate placement. Boost creep is going to be your biggest enemy as the angle/length...etc can play havoc on boost issues.

[Chris Wilson]

Personally I'd buy a genuine Garrett turbo UK support, so when you want to play with housing sizes or have it rebuilt you have local (English) support. I have a car here with an almost new (just mapping by Owens time on a Motec ECU) none Garrett US turbo that smokes like a whatsit on start up, and it looks like the turbine housing flange is warped, too, as it's blowing there. That's probably because it's made of cheap high silicon cast iron instead of the NiResist high nickel content a genuine Garrett petrol turbo housing is made of.

[UK Supra TT]

Yeah but i don't want to have to take off the xspower manifold untill i really need too, but you idea about using the stock one (pretty obvious really, but i'm obviously being a bit daft today!) is a good one, i'll do that.

 

Yeah thats very true about the angle of the manifold tubes, how they join at the flange and where the wastegate is placed, i've got a few good books on engine tunning and exhaust design so i'm going to settle into some reading!

 

Well apparently all the f1 exhausts they have including manifolds are titanium, they do inconel too but i was amazed at the weight of it, it's far denser than stainless, do you thing that would be the best material then? I'm more than willing to accept most of you guys know a hell of a lot more than me about such things and i'm not too proud to admit i need help!

 

Good point on the garrett stuff, the reasone i was looking at turbonetics is that 500yrds up the road form my work is universal turbo's and they build/rebuild and are dealers for turbonetics so they would be building it on sight for me, they do garrett also though, any idea what spec would be best for a UK supra, i want to run around 500bhp without suffering too much from the lag you get with single turbo conversions, as far as i'm aware the smaller the turbine housing the faster the spool but i presume the size of the compressor wheel and housing would play a really big part in that too, but if you don't go large enough it can't flow enough at high rpm, doesn that sound right or am i confused?!

 

Whats a good compromise that people like on supra's of this spec?

[Chris Wilson]

Inconel is what you want for a tubular turbo manifold if the budget allows, but it's an expensive material that's REALLY tricky to weld and machine. I'd say a TO4 size turbo is what you should be looking at.

[Stevie Boy]

Inconel is what you want for a tubular turbo manifold if the budget allows, but it's an expensive material that's REALLY tricky to weld and machine. I'd say a TO4 size turbo is what you should be looking at.

 

Chris, roughly what sort of costs would be involved in producing a manifold out of Inconel as a raw material? I take it it's expensive stuff.

 

I hadn't considered realiability issues of a cast iron manifold even if it was produced with hi silicon content iron, are OE cast iron manifolds always low in silicon?

 

Makes you wonder why outfits go to the trouble of designing and producing the bloody things and make it from poor grade unreliable materials which will warp (obviously cheaper to flog with quick profits, but why peddle rubbish when you could make a good rep for yourself selling a quality product i don't get).

 

Also is it advisable when designing a manifold, to try and incorporate equal length headers on a single turbo manifold for a 2JZ-GTE.

[UK Supra TT]

Yeah i'll have to ask if they can do me one in inconel, if it's too expensive it just won't be worth it for me!

 

I was wondering if there would be any benifit to mounting the turbo on it's side, keeping the pipes shorter and the flow from the ports would have to go round less bends, etc, good idea/bad idea?!

 

T04 ok cool, i'll have a see what I can find, are garrett really worth the money? I know there a well known manufacturer and very experienced but so are HKS in theory and they produce some absolute rubbish on occasions! I suppose what i'm really driving at it are you paying more for the name?

 

Inconel is very expensive, apparently more so than titanium, it's super dense and strong though.

 

Yeah it was also my understanding that each branch of the manifold should be the same length, but things like wastegate placement are a bit more of a mistery to me at the moment, i presume since it's to reduce the flow through the turbine the closer to the base of the flange of the turbo the better, yes/no?

[Chris Wilson]

As a guide Primary Designs quoted me 700 to make the jigs (paid for and done) and 3 to 3.5 k for the first Inconel manifold for a single turbo Skyline engine. Obviously that includes labour, but if you did one for a grand in material you are doing well. Must be costs, not sure if high nickel cast iron is more difficult to work with or what, but it's usually onle OE manifolds you see made in this. I *THINK* Arnout took my advice and used it in his cat iron 2JZ-GTE single turbo manifolds though.

 

I like Garrett as you can get all the info on them, you know they aren't made of re cycled Chinese bicycles, and you know you can get the parts to rebuild or re size them easily. IHI may be technically more advanced, but they are eye wateringly expensive and have nothing like the UK support of Garrett. KKK are good, too!

 

If you put a turbo on it's side how will the cassette gravity drain of oil? The water cooling may nucleate boil, and won't purge any steam, blah blah. I'd not get too clever there

 

Whilst equal length primaries are nice on an N/A they are probably a bit OTT on a turbo if it makes for a difficult pattern to jig and fabricate, I wouldn't worry about it. I WOULD worry about the mechanical and thermal issues of something near white hot with possibly 30 PSI inside it.

[UK Supra TT]

well i can get the inconel/titanium etc for free, when they manufacture stuff they have pipes that fault inspection etc, since i only need short lengths i will just be using there free throw aways, handy huh! after it's made it will be penetrante inspected and possibly x-ray since NDT is what my mate there does.

 

oh right, i was under the impression that you could simply rotate the turbine and compressor housings so it becomes essentially side mounted although the journal is all still vertically orientated, i relise you can't put that on it's side, is that wrong then? I certianly rotated the compressor housing on my current turbo to suite my pipe work.

 

Oh really? so its not critical on turbo car's then? well thats good to know, i presume the more equal in length they are the better though? yeah i know things like stainless expand alot and become weak at high egt, i was going to put some support bars on it to help, what i'll do chris is send you a copy of my drawings to have a quick look at before getting anything made if thats ok?

[Stevie Boy]

If you fancy recouping any production costs by making a limited run of a few extras, drop me a pm i may be interested in one myself!

 

Although have you considered using the "Arnout" style manifold instead? I think Supra Sport Europe still produce them. Which i guess could save you a lot of bother.

 

I have always felt it appeared quite restrictive in design but i guess that may have been necessary to shoe-horn the turbo, wastgate and what not around it.

[UK Supra TT]

well i'm trying to go for a bit of a one custom build, i want to design as much as i can, but if it turned out to be any good then i would certainly consider having a few more made to sell, but i'm going to need help from you guys to come up with a decent design anyway, want to see if i can do an inlet manifold if this is sucessfull too.

 

I'm an electronics design engineer by trade and i'm making loads of one of electronics gadgets too and those will certainly up for sale if people want them. I'll keep you all posed. I'm looking into trying to decode the serial data streem from the ECU on ODB-I supra's like mine and most around. Don't suppose any of you have any info on the serial protocol used on early mkiv's?