Mike Posted July 24, 2008 Share Posted July 24, 2008 You want to get yourself one of those nice reliable auto N/A's Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest CoolsBlue Posted July 24, 2008 Share Posted July 24, 2008 You want to get yourself one of those nice reliable auto N/A's Yup the mans right, na engines are stronger than tt ones!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marbleapple Posted July 24, 2008 Share Posted July 24, 2008 Yeah might have to do that. *puts law hat on* You can't have a disclaimer for death or injury, they are not valid in law. Simple fact - UCTA. If Matt killed himself in a car that you had let him drive which was not road worthy as a consequence of the work you had done then you could/would be guilty of the negligence leading to his death. The customer isn't always right and the next time Matt asks you, simply say 'no'. If he doesn't like it then tough for him, he can't take it from your garage without your permission otherwise it would be theft. *takes law hat off* Matt: love your car, it will look great when its all working. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muffleman Posted July 24, 2008 Share Posted July 24, 2008 *puts law hat on* You can't have a disclaimer for death or injury, they are not valid in law. Simple fact - UCTA. If Matt killed himself in a car that you had let him drive which was not road worthy as a consequence of the work you had done then you could/would be guilty of the negligence leading to his death. The customer isn't always right and the next time Matt asks you, simply say 'no'. If he doesn't like it then tough for him, he can't take it from your garage without your permission otherwise it would be theft. *takes law hat off* Matt: love your car, it will look great when its all working. Duly taken on board Just not a situation I've encountered before. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marbleapple Posted July 24, 2008 Share Posted July 24, 2008 Duly taken on board Just not a situation I've encountered before. Good good (I'll send my bill in the post... ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaveSupTT Posted July 24, 2008 Share Posted July 24, 2008 has your car been registered and MOT'd yet Matt? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamesy Posted July 24, 2008 Share Posted July 24, 2008 *puts law hat on* You can't have a disclaimer for death or injury, they are not valid in law. Simple fact - UCTA. If Matt killed himself in a car that you had let him drive which was not road worthy as a consequence of the work you had done then you could/would be guilty of the negligence leading to his death. The customer isn't always right and the next time Matt asks you, simply say 'no'. If he doesn't like it then tough for him, he can't take it from your garage without your permission otherwise it would be theft. *takes law hat off* Matt: love your car, it will look great when its all working. i think its a tough one mate - iff Matt H said "i'm coming to get MY car" and he has paid the bills and has been fully informed by AFR then Matt cant really say you "cant" have your car back. its not his car after all. however i think its crazy to have ever taken it away. i've been to AFR many times now and have always got problems sorted - it would have been MUCH better to have left it there for as long as it takes as you know it'll get done to a good. and roadworth standard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Posted July 24, 2008 Share Posted July 24, 2008 *puts law hat on* You can't have a disclaimer for death or injury, they are not valid in law. Simple fact - UCTA. If Matt killed himself in a car that you had let him drive which was not road worthy as a consequence of the work you had done then you could/would be guilty of the negligence leading to his death. The customer isn't always right and the next time Matt asks you, simply say 'no'. If he doesn't like it then tough for him, he can't take it from your garage without your permission otherwise it would be theft. *takes law hat off* Matt: love your car, it will look great when its all working. Really? But if Matt had signed something saying that he was aware the car wasn't safe then it's the drivers responsibility and risk? I wouldn't have thought it was negligence then as he'd been made aware of the current situation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mr lover Posted July 24, 2008 Share Posted July 24, 2008 If you provide a service you have a duty of care to the customer the customer is not always right Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marbleapple Posted July 24, 2008 Share Posted July 24, 2008 (edited) Really? But if Matt had signed something saying that he was aware the car wasn't safe then it's the drivers responsibility and risk? I wouldn't have thought it was negligence then as he'd been made aware of the current situation. Its very simple really. As the above poster states, Muffleman would owe Matt a duty of care and the Unfair Contract Terms Act prevents any disclaimer against death or personal injury. Think of the implications otherwise. I quote: "A person cannot by reference to any contract term or to a notice given to persons generally or to particular persons exclude or restrict his liability for death or personal injury resulting from negligence." Matt knowing the situation would simply reduce the damages paid to him in a civil action. Edited July 24, 2008 by marbleapple (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muffleman Posted July 24, 2008 Share Posted July 24, 2008 Hmmm, I will have to give this some serious thought. It's the first time I've had to let a car go unfinished and it raises an interesting situation. So what if someone brings in a car and just wants me to work on some of it, yet clearly there are other issues on the car ? Not all cars will be perfect or finished when leaving a garage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Posted July 24, 2008 Share Posted July 24, 2008 Hmmm, I will have to give this some serious thought. It's the first time I've had to let a car go unfinished and it raises an interesting situation. So what if someone brings in a car and just wants me to work on some of it, yet clearly there are other issues on the car ? Not all cars will be perfect or finished when leaving a garage. Don't need to be perfect or finished, just safe If it wouldn't pass an MOT due to a major failing its unsafe. To be honest if you had Matt sign something you would be even more liable Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marbleapple Posted July 24, 2008 Share Posted July 24, 2008 (edited) Its very simple really. As the above poster states, Muffleman would owe Matt a duty of care and the Unfair Contract Terms Act prevents any disclaimer against death or personal injury. Think of the implications otherwise. I quote: "A person cannot by reference to any contract term or to a notice given to persons generally or to particular persons exclude or restrict his liability for death or personal injury resulting from negligence." Matt knowing the situation would simply reduce the damages paid to him in a civil action. Sorry lets get the above straight. Muffleman would have civil liability (i.e. could be sued) as there is a breach of his duty of care to Matt should he let Matt drive a car under his control when he was aware of the danger. There I am certain also a criminal element since there was a duty of care, Muffleman was aware of the danger, had a duty of care and failed to act... negligent manslaughter. So what if someone brings in a car and just wants me to work on some of it, yet clearly there are other issues on the car ? Not all cars will be perfect or finished when leaving a garage. Things do get complicated but lets be honest, Matts situation is rather clear cut (especially when you post things up on internet forums). Edited July 24, 2008 by marbleapple (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
supra_aero Posted July 24, 2008 Share Posted July 24, 2008 Is interesting, I always thought the blame would lie with the owner if he knew and requested the keys and paid in full. If a known alcoholic buys spirits from an off license and the owner of the off license knew this person was an alcoholic and says its killing the buyer and advises the person to stop drinking. If the buyer ignores and dies of alcohol poisoning that night - that is not the off license owners fault is it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muffleman Posted July 24, 2008 Share Posted July 24, 2008 It went through an MOT just a few days before it left. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
supra_aero Posted July 24, 2008 Share Posted July 24, 2008 we need a lawyer here to explain liability. Wonder if any lawyers are on here who drive mkiv supras? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marbleapple Posted July 24, 2008 Share Posted July 24, 2008 It went through an MOT just a few days before it left. With all of the problems Matt listed and you claiming that it wasn't finished? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Posted July 24, 2008 Share Posted July 24, 2008 It went through an MOT just a few days before it left. With wheel studs missing? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Class One Posted July 24, 2008 Share Posted July 24, 2008 Matt, you can't let a car leave your garage in a dangerous condition because of the "what if" factor, I expect you've taken that one onboard already. What concerns me more is that Matt H shouldn't have driven his car on the road in a dangerous condition. Any reasonable person would know not to do so, but hey i'll live in reality where sometimes you have to do what it takes to go to a meet and show off my car even though it shouldn't legally be on the road and sod everyone else. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muffleman Posted July 24, 2008 Share Posted July 24, 2008 Yes, I do not do 'dodgy' MOTs either, that car has a bona fide MOT. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marbleapple Posted July 24, 2008 Share Posted July 24, 2008 (edited) Yes, I do not do 'dodgy' MOTs either, that car has a bona fide MOT. No one was suggesting that you do dodgy MOTs. It was just interesting since if it passed the MOT then it can't be as bad as the forums made it out to be.... from what I have read it sounded like the car would have collapsed at any moment which makes me wonder (on a different subject) how on earth it gets through an MOT (or what on earth an MOT looks at). I have a similar MOT related issue at the moment. My car passed its MOT last month but I have spotted a few thigns that makes me wonder what the MOT tester looks at. (Which I suppose is going way off topic) Edited July 24, 2008 by marbleapple (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muffleman Posted July 24, 2008 Share Posted July 24, 2008 It did indeed pass a full MOT with the only advisory being a very minor oil leak which we sorted. And according to this http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/Motoring/OwningAVehicle/Mot/DG_10016070 Wheel Security is checked somehow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Posted July 24, 2008 Share Posted July 24, 2008 How many studs is required for an MOT (Serious question i aint taking the piss) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt H Posted July 24, 2008 Author Share Posted July 24, 2008 (edited) What concerns me more is that Matt H shouldn't have driven his car on the road in a dangerous condition. Any reasonable person would know not to do so, but hey to go to a meet and show off my car even though it shouldn't legally be on the road and sod everyone else. Right i've bit my tongue, but thats p!ssed me off, as usual twisting what i have said. if you BOTHER to read what i have put, the car started to play up on the way to the ACE cafe. I was sure i was picking up a car that aside from having a "minor" gear box issue, which was confirmed as "doesnt seem to be putting down 451bhp" missing a single stud... which i couldnt care less about as over 200 miles of normal driving is not going to throw a wheel off, . The gauges were not complete and the aircon didnt work but that was the only thing i thought was not done... I was going down to pick up a car that i was sure was perfectly fine to drive. A boost gauge / an AFR gauge and a EGT gauge are not essential... The rest of the issues such as my fag lighter not working i noticed on the way home. You can see my tick off list on the first post as to what was confirmed as done.. The issue with the gearbox was apparant when i drove the hour to the ACE cafe. Douglas, in all you infinite wisdom, do you think i would have bothered to travel a near 500 miles round trip, plus all the expense of getting there and back if i didnt think the car was finished albeit some minor issues?!?!?!?! to go to a meet and show off my car even though it shouldn't legally be on the road and sod everyone else. No, wrong again, to get home from London!!!!!!!!! Edited July 24, 2008 by Matt H (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Franko Posted July 24, 2008 Share Posted July 24, 2008 I failed as i only had 4 Nuts on my back wheels and not 5 as i had broken tool for removing the nuts Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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