Conspiracy theory - Did we (USA) land on the moon?

[grahamc]

Apollo 11, 12, 14, 15, 16 & 17..... these are all the supposed moon landings.

Footage of them on google video, youtube etc.

 

The first conspiracy theory about the moon landings came out 2 years after the very first one.

And I guess it really doesn't matter if the americans went or they didn't.... what difference does it make ?

The way I see it is that all they used it for was to get world recognition for beating the ruskies at space travel.... and also using it to show that they had technological advatange over the entire world.

 

There are many facts that support BOTH theories and I guess only the people who were actually directly involved will know if man had truely been to the moon.

The rest of the world has to have trust in a few people that say we did and then believe their particular evidence that supports it.

(would you trust an american? --- hahaha --- light hearted joke)

 

I think if the americans wanted, they could easily have staged it all.... Area 52, secret filming, only telling people involved a small part of the bigger picture... etc etc.

The price of beating the ruskies and the deadline set by Kennedy for the end of the 60's.... I think NASA had to give a positive result..... no matter what.

 

And I also think it may have been possible for man to land on the moon. If the radiation problem was solved and the technology was available then why not? ..... Stability of rockects is a difficult thing to achieve but after that is sorted then it really is just basic physics that will get man from the earth through empty space and to the moon.

 

Why does it matter? It does not really, but if it was faked and they lied for 40+ years about it, what else have the lied about? What else are they controlling just to make money? Its a big can of worms...

 

[colsoop]

There is no moon i tells ya.

[AJI]

I haven't read any of the thread (wait till lunchtime! ), I just wanted to say OMG. Cos I really can't understand how people fall for all this conspiracy theory bullsh*t.

 

Are you a guy who will accept anything without question ?

 

 

It may be a conspiracy or it may be true that some americans set foot on the moon...... but if there is anything to suggest otherwise (for either case).... then an open mind should be adopted.... yes? no?

 

[grahamc]

Are you a guy who will accept anything without question ?

 

 

It may be a conspiracy or it may be true that some americans set foot on the moon...... but if there is anything to suggest otherwise (for either case).... then an open mind should be adopted.... yes? no?

 

 

Agree... However Cliff posted an interesting comment about "being open minded".

 

I do like to question things and find out for myself, only if there is evidence fo both sides and in this case, there is, IMHO.

[rpslaughter1982]

I do find it a bit odd that with something as epic as landing on the moon the americans 'lost' the original films.

[Gaz6002]

There is no moon i tells ya.

 

Have you noticed that the sun and the moon never come out at the same time?

 

They are the same person I tell you!!

 

On a serious note I'm reading this with interest. My mate is absolutely convinced that the USA have been no-where near the moon and I have a good ol' laugh at him every time he says it.

[Digsy]

I thought that the whole Van Allen "radiation" belt thing is a non-starter because its not actually "deadly" radiation (for want of a better term) like Beta particles or Gamma waves, but rather less energetic particles that can be stopped relativelty easily by just a few mm of metal (not a couple of feet of lead)?

 

…and the Russians were eveloping their own moon programme at a similar time to the US, and they were the first country to make a lunar "landing" with an unmanned probe, so I would have thought they would have had the ability to track a spacecraft before Apollo 12. The reason they pulled out of the lunar race was because they couldn't stop their lunar rocket from blowing up (it used something like 30 booster rockets, which could not be tested individually - therefore by the law of averages it was a virtual certainty that each rocket they built had at least one faulty booster).

[lust2luv]

The Japanese are planning to photograph the landing sites from their lunar orbiter some time in the very near future, so that should clear things up (or add another level to the hoax theory).

 

[JustGav]

TBH only the thick as pigshit would think the moon landings were hoaxed.

 

I'll offer an alternative thinking..

 

I reckon they did actually land on the moon, but not because that was the plan. Given the anomisty between the soviet union and america and the fact that the soviets had beaten them to a man in space, I reckon JFK decided to pull one of the biggest hoaxes going and pretend to land a man on the moon. In order for it to be totally believable they went to the effort of constructing all the required stuff and then just figured they had spent so much that "what the hell let's give it a go" happend

 

Let bit wacky, but then that is me

[tbourner]

1. doctered photos - cross hairs (had to be on all photos) should go over the top of whatever picture is taken, but behind items in the picture

In all the examples I've seen the crosshairs, called fiducials, disappear when crossing a brightly lit white object. What's happening here is the intense light reflecting off the white surface is bleeding in around the crosshair and saturating the film, thus obliterating the crosshair. This phenomenon is commonplace and is in no way evidence of fraud.

 

2. 2 separate locations (said by NASA) with the background and rock formations being the same

There's an easy explanation for this: human error. The video clips to which the hoax advocates refer are from a documentary (not made by NASA) that accidentally used a wrong clip. This was a simple mistake, but not one made by NASA. According to NASA, the photos were actually taken about three minutes apart on the same hill.

 

3. a radiation barrier that would pretty much have killed anyone, without a 6ft lead shield.

This is a claim the hoax advocates often make, but it is a gross exaggeration and simply not supported by the data. Radiation was a definite concern for NASA before the first space flights, but they invested a great deal of research into it and determined the hazard was minimal. It took Apollo about an hour to pass through the radiation belts - once on the outbound trip and once again on the return trip. The total radiation dose received by the astronauts was about one rem. A person will experience radiation sickness with a dose of 100-200 rem, and death with a dose of 300+ rem. Clearly the doses received fall well below anything that could be considered a significant risk. Despite claims that "lead shielding meters thick would have been needed", NASA found it unnecessary to provide any special radiation shielding.

 

The hoax advocates also make the mistake of limiting themselves to two-dimensional thinking. The Van Allen Radiation Belts consist of a doughnut-shaped region centered around the Earth's magnetic equator, and spanning about 40 degrees of latitude - 20 degrees above and below the magnetic equator. The translunar trajectories followed by the Apollo spacecraft were typically inclined about 30 degrees to the Earth's equator, therefore Apollo bypassed all but the edges of the radiation belts.

 

4. some interesting bits about some of the deaths surrounding NASA, etc.

Bill Kaysing particularly has made many slanderous allegations against NASA yet, when former astronaut Jim Lovell called him "wacky", Kaysing had the gall to file suit against Lovell. Wisely, the suit was dismissed.

 

By the way, one of Mr. Kaysing accusations is that Christa McAuliffe, the school teacher who was to fly aboard Challenger in 1986, would not go along with NASA's lie that stars cannot be seen in space. When she refused, NASA murdered the unfortunate Ms. McAuliffe, along with six others, by destroying Challenger in one of the most spectacular, expensive, and embarrassing failures in U.S. history. What proof does Mr. Kaysing give in support of this claim? None of course.

 

Also consider that if NASA has been silencing these people, why haven't they killed any of the hoax conspiracy theorists?

 

Quotes from http://www.braeunig.us/space/hoax.htm

 

Are you a guy who will accept anything without question ?

Nope, far from it, it's just ridiculous to even consider that it was all hoaxed. As has been mentioned with leaf fairies and ockham's razor; it's like suggesting aliens come and take my rubbish away every week and the bin-men are all a big hoax by the government to cover it up - well yeah I've got no proof against that theory but jeez, are you serious!!

[Gaz6002]

My mate thinks it's all to do with the big red button. That's his answer to everything... including why we went to war with Iraq, the US presidential assasinations, the 9/11 thing and also why they don't make multi-coloured smarties.

[RiceRocket]

The plane will take off.

 

Finally got it!

 

I think if the americans wanted, they could easily have staged it all.... Area 52,

 

Is that the secret base next door then?

 

[Gaz6002]

Finally got it!

 

Not really but I don't want to get anyone all worked up again.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

;)

[charlton]

An argument for both sides here....

 

The American goverment lied to their Citizens in the 50's about UFO's to cover up their testing of fighter planes - so they are known for their conspiracies

 

however...

 

How do you know the info on radiation etc is correct? You dont believe what NASA are saying so why do you beleive someone else?

[rpslaughter1982]

President Clinton in his 2004 autobiography, My Life, states (on page 156): "Just a month before, Apollo 11 astronauts Buzz Aldrin and Neil Armstrong had left their colleague, Michael Collins, aboard spaceship Columbia and walked on the Moon, beating by five months President Kennedy's goal of putting a man on the Moon before the decade was out. The old carpenter asked me if I really believed it happened. I said sure, I saw it on television. He disagreed; he said that he didn't believe it for a minute, that 'them television fellers' could make things look real that weren't. Back then, I thought he was a crank. During my eight years in Washington, I saw some things on TV that made me wonder if he wasn't ahead of his time."

[tbourner]

I've got REM 'Man on the Moon' stuck in my head now!

[grahamc]

In all the examples I've seen the crosshairs, called fiducials, disappear when crossing a brightly lit white object. What's happening here is the intense light reflecting off the white surface is bleeding in around the crosshair and saturating the film, thus obliterating the crosshair. This phenomenon is commonplace and is in no way evidence of fraud.

 

 

There's an easy explanation for this: human error. The video clips to which the hoax advocates refer are from a documentary (not made by NASA) that accidentally used a wrong clip. This was a simple mistake, but not one made by NASA. According to NASA, the photos were actually taken about three minutes apart on the same hill.

 

 

This is a claim the hoax advocates often make, but it is a gross exaggeration and simply not supported by the data. Radiation was a definite concern for NASA before the first space flights, but they invested a great deal of research into it and determined the hazard was minimal. It took Apollo about an hour to pass through the radiation belts - once on the outbound trip and once again on the return trip. The total radiation dose received by the astronauts was about one rem. A person will experience radiation sickness with a dose of 100-200 rem, and death with a dose of 300+ rem. Clearly the doses received fall well below anything that could be considered a significant risk. Despite claims that "lead shielding meters thick would have been needed", NASA found it unnecessary to provide any special radiation shielding.

 

The hoax advocates also make the mistake of limiting themselves to two-dimensional thinking. The Van Allen Radiation Belts consist of a doughnut-shaped region centered around the Earth's magnetic equator, and spanning about 40 degrees of latitude - 20 degrees above and below the magnetic equator. The translunar trajectories followed by the Apollo spacecraft were typically inclined about 30 degrees to the Earth's equator, therefore Apollo bypassed all but the edges of the radiation belts.

 

 

Bill Kaysing particularly has made many slanderous allegations against NASA yet, when former astronaut Jim Lovell called him "wacky", Kaysing had the gall to file suit against Lovell. Wisely, the suit was dismissed.

 

By the way, one of Mr. Kaysing accusations is that Christa McAuliffe, the school teacher who was to fly aboard Challenger in 1986, would not go along with NASA's lie that stars cannot be seen in space. When she refused, NASA murdered the unfortunate Ms. McAuliffe, along with six others, by destroying Challenger in one of the most spectacular, expensive, and embarrassing failures in U.S. history. What proof does Mr. Kaysing give in support of this claim? None of course.

 

Also consider that if NASA has been silencing these people, why haven't they killed any of the hoax conspiracy theorists?

 

Quotes from http://www.braeunig.us/space/hoax.htm

 

 

Nope, far from it, it's just ridiculous to even consider that it was all hoaxed. As has been mentioned with leaf fairies and ockham's razor; it's like suggesting aliens come and take my rubbish away every week and the bin-men are all a big hoax by the government to cover it up - well yeah I've got no proof against that theory but jeez, are you serious!!

 

Some very good points.

 

You are way off on the Ockhams Razor statement. Here you are talking about mythological creatures, where as we are discussing the US government, which is reknowned for cover up stories, lies and so on.

 

The problem with the photos, is that I have seen pics where the crosshairs cannot be seen even where the background colour is not white. So the only true answer would be to look at the originals... which if faked I doubt would ever truely be the "originals".

 

As for the video, surely TV programs cannot run-a-round editting NASAs video footage and stating blatant lies? Surely the editted videos they get come from one source. If NASA made a mistake, fine, but admit it.

 

Silencing the conspiracy theorists - interesting option, but what would happen if say the top 5 people shouting out against this suddenly died? There would 10 more behind them shouting even louder (have you never watched x-files?),. Instead they attack the person, attack their credibility, just like some of you have in the thread.

 

Lets see some proof on the levels of radiation in the Van Allens belt that are NOT from NASA. Do you think that if they went to all this trouble that they would not manufacture some of these facts/details?

 

An argument for both sides here....

 

The American goverment lied to their Citizens in the 50's about UFO's to cover up their testing of fighter planes - so they are known for their conspiracies

 

however...

 

How do you know the info on radiation etc is correct? You dont believe what NASA are saying so why do you beleive someone else?

 

I believe the US has done drugs testing on its own soldiers? But thats another dicussion. Just shows what they are willing to do, just to get what they want.....

 

President Clinton in his 2004 autobiography, My Life, states (on page 156): "Just a month before, Apollo 11 astronauts Buzz Aldrin and Neil Armstrong had left their colleague, Michael Collins, aboard spaceship Columbia and walked on the Moon, beating by five months President Kennedy's goal of putting a man on the Moon before the decade was out. The old carpenter asked me if I really believed it happened. I said sure, I saw it on television. He disagreed; he said that he didn't believe it for a minute, that 'them television fellers' could make things look real that weren't. Back then, I thought he was a crank. During my eight years in Washington, I saw some things on TV that made me wonder if he wasn't ahead of his time."

 

Lovely quote!!

 

Heres a simple question (well 2 actually):

 

When you hear on the news that solider (or many) have died in a training accident, do you automatically believe it?

 

Also do you believe that the US government lies about where they send their troops, crossing boards illegally, etc? If they can lie about this, why not more???

[Gaz6002]

Lovely quote!!

 

Heres a simple question (well 2 actually):

 

When you hear on the news that solider (or many) have died in a training accident, do you automatically believe it?

 

Also do you believe that the US government lies about where they send their troops, crossing boards illegally, etc? If they can lie about this, why not more???

 

You would be wise to remember that the US government and the US media are 2 completely different entities

[grahamc]

You would be wise to remember that the US government and the US media are 2 completely different entities

 

Glad you think so...

[tbourner]

You would be wise to remember that the US government and the US media are 2 completely different entities

 

Shame the same isn't true in the UK.

[grahamc]

shame The Same Isn't True In The Uk.

 

[Gaz6002]

Glad you think so...

 

So you think that anything that comes from a Newspaper/TV journalist in the USA is automatically the governments standpoint?

 

 

Shame the same isn't true in the UK.

 

Well at least we know where we stand with it all. In the USA they haven't got a clue what to believe or who to listen to!

[tbourner]

You are way off on the Ockhams Razor statement. Here you are talking about mythological creatures, where as we are discussing the US government, which is reknowned for cover up stories, lies and so on.

Simply an extreme example. And who says aliens are a myth!

 

The problem with the photos, is that I have seen pics where the crosshairs cannot be seen even where the background colour is not white. So the only true answer would be to look at the originals... which if faked I doubt would ever truely be the "originals".

Can you find some of these pics you've seen?

 

As for the video, surely TV programs cannot run-a-round editting NASAs video footage and stating blatant lies? Surely the editted videos they get come from one source. If NASA made a mistake, fine, but admit it.

No, the pictures were put into a documentary that stated where they were taken, the pictures were mistakenly put in the wrong places in the documentary, theorists took the footage as fact claiming they were from different locations when you could see they weren't.

Simple mistake by someone making video for a documentary (or taking a short cut route to finishing the film).

 

Silencing the conspiracy theorists - interesting option, but what would happen if say the top 5 people shouting out against this suddenly died? There would 10 more behind them shouting even louder (have you never watched x-files?),. Instead they attack the person, attack their credibility, just like some of you have in the thread.

True, I don't really know about the deaths of people involved. I'm certain that governments can and do this kind of thing though.

 

Lets see some proof on the levels of radiation in the Van Allens belt that are NOT from NASA. Do you think that if they went to all this trouble that they would not manufacture some of these facts/details?

There's plenty of it about, I don't think NASA made it ALL up, have a look through some science books and stuff.

 

From: http://www.iki.rssi.ru/mirrors/stern/Education/wradbelt.html

"The inner belt, the one discovered by Van Allen's Geiger counter, occupies a compact region above the equator and is a by-product of cosmic radiation. It is populated by protons of energies in the 10-100 Mev range, which readily penetrate spacecraft and which can, on prolonged exposure, damage instruments and be a hazard to astronauts. Both manned and unmanned spaceflights tend to stay out of this region."

 

I believe the US has done drugs testing on its own soldiers? But thats another dicussion. Just shows what they are willing to do, just to get what they want.....

 

When you hear on the news that solider (or many) have died in a training accident, do you automatically believe it?

 

Also do you believe that the US government lies about where they send their troops, crossing boards illegally, etc? If they can lie about this, why not more???

I don't believe much of anything I see on the news TBH, I get a lot of info from the net, and I try to go to as many sources (sites) as possible as it can't all be tampered.

[grahamc]

Simply an extreme example. And who says aliens are a myth!

 

 

Can you find some of these pics you've seen?

 

 

No, the pictures were put into a documentary that stated where they were taken, the pictures were mistakenly put in the wrong places in the documentary, theorists took the footage as fact claiming they were from different locations when you could see they weren't.

Simple mistake by someone making video for a documentary (or taking a short cut route to finishing the film).

 

 

True, I don't really know about the deaths of people involved. I'm certain that governments can and do this kind of thing though.

 

 

There's plenty of it about, I don't think NASA made it ALL up, have a look through some science books and stuff.

 

From: http://www.iki.rssi.ru/mirrors/stern/Education/wradbelt.html

"The inner belt, the one discovered by Van Allen's Geiger counter, occupies a compact region above the equator and is a by-product of cosmic radiation. It is populated by protons of energies in the 10-100 Mev range, which readily penetrate spacecraft and which can, on prolonged exposure, damage instruments and be a hazard to astronauts. Both manned and unmanned spaceflights tend to stay out of this region."

 

 

I don't believe much of anything I see on the news TBH, I get a lot of info from the net, and I try to go to as many sources (sites) as possible as it can't all be tampered.

 

Good post!

 

I will try and find some of the pics.

 

I will also have a look for the video/pictures that were the same and where they came from.

 

I dont believe most of what the news states either, however, in the 1960s and 1970s what else was there???

 

Enter a good quote....

The best lies, are those closest to the truth.

[Gazboy]

According to the site that you posted, it sounds like it would b damn near impossible for any "normal" person to view/use this.

 

 

 

 

 

So is that a "yes the mirrors are up there" ???