17" vs 18"

[RobSheffield]

Good, because I’m bored of your single minded bull$#@! anyway!

 

See im bored of you being a bit thick except i can express myself without resorting to insults.

 

Til now

[Scott]

BTW Neo i agree with you in one very small point you made above. You CAN increase grip by making a tyre wider on the same wheels. The discussion we are all having is about changing the wheel size, not tyre width. If you increase the wheel size you need to increase the tyre width to stay on a par with the previous size with regards to handling. If you go wider again you may make a slight improvement but you would get a far bigger improvement by getting smaller wheels with thicker tyres. The biggest improvement would be customising the whole setup for what you want to do....

 

Drag/straight line - Small Wheels Big Tyres

Cornering - Profile of around 50%, base the size depending on the power of the car.

Bling bling - As much wheel with as little tyre as possible.

 

If you have a look what all the guys on here have been saying we have all been pretty much agreeing with each other through different views on the same points (thats a mouthfull) if you agree with what i am saying then you are agreeing with what everyone has been saying all day.

[NeoMagic]

See im bored of you being a bit thick except i can express myself without resorting to insults.

 

Til now

 

You have a way with words, what can I say?

 

Sorry, Forums sometimes can be a pain in the ass to get a point across without spending 20 minutes or longer composing a reply to fight my corner.

 

This is a good technical debate, silly thing is in many scenario’s I agree with you.

 

I am strictly talking about good tarmac and the track, but hey ho I guess this is the problem with forums things get missed and people can reply faster than you can making it appear as if I didn’t know the facts in the first place (Which I do).

 

Sorry for biting, totally out of character for me.

Edited June 14, 2008 by NeoMagic (see edit history)

[Scott]

You have a way with words, what can I say?

 

Sorry, Forums sometimes can be a pain in the ass to get a point across without spending 20 minutes or longer composing a reply to fight my corner.

 

This is a good technical debate, silly thing is in many scenario’s I agree with you.

 

I am strictly talking about good tarmac and the track, but hey ho I guess this is the problem with forums things get missed and people can reply faster than you can making it appear as if I didn’t know the facts in the first place (Which I do).

 

Sorry for biting, totally out of character for me.

 

 

By the way, i'm about as articulate as George dubble ya hence the reason i find it hard to get my point across also. I had to write mega amounts of dross to say what i was thinking lol

[NeoMagic]

 

By the way, i'm about as articulate as George dubble ya hence the reason i find it hard to get my point across also. I had to write mega amounts of dross to say what i was thinking lol

 

[keener]

What was the original question again?

 

I'm thinking about doing the same thing - ditching the 17s for 18s. The OEM wheels I have now are 8.5 wide on the front and 9.5 wide on the rear but most of the aftermarket wheels I've found that I like don't do these widths.

 

Am I right in thinking the handling will suffer if I go to 9 width all round so should I look at 8 on the front and 9 on the back? Or should I try to find 8.5s for the front and 9.5s for the rear just as Toyota intended?

[Thorin]

What was the original question again?

 

I'm thinking about doing the same thing - ditching the 17s for 18s. The OEM wheels I have now are 8.5 wide on the front and 9.5 wide on the rear but most of the aftermarket wheels I've found that I like don't do these widths.

 

Am I right in thinking the handling will suffer if I go to 9 width all round so should I look at 8 on the front and 9 on the back? Or should I try to find 8.5s for the front and 9.5s for the rear just as Toyota intended?

 

Stock widths, or half an inch wider IMO.

[hoff]

if you are looking for the best handling and ride surely you would want a 17" wheel with 235/45/17 and 255/40/17 tyres and the same offset as the stock wheel. Thats what the supe was designed with and any veriation on this would make for poorer handling and ride. But as said, most want even notice the differances. TBH, I run on 19s and all I notice is more road noise, and little more tramlining and the fact that fast corning is not as fast as it once was (but only slightly). I do have my geo set up for the wheels though.

[RedM]

Can you hear that?

 

THUD! THUD! THUD!

 

That'll be CW banging his head against a wall.

[JustGav]

Can you hear that?

 

THUD! THUD! THUD!

 

That'll be CW banging his head against a wall.

 

Yup, I'm hoping he doesn't stumble across this as I'd hate to lose a good member when he reads this and then pops off into one of his fields and attaches himself to the fence

[hoff]

Can you hear that?

 

THUD! THUD! THUD!

 

That'll be CW banging his head against a wall.

 

Yup, I'm hoping he doesn't stumble across this as I'd hate to lose a good member when he reads this and then pops off into one of his fields and attaches himself to the fence

 

 

I found the handling on my 19s fine until lately. I had the geo done again but because the tyres are only at about 65% the road noise has increased loads, the ride is much harsher and the handling not as good. So im contemplating going back to 17s. I took my mates out the other day and the ride/handling on 17s is far superior.

Edited June 16, 2008 by hoff (see edit history)

[Wez]

Increasing mechanical grip of your motor is not just down to sticking wider tires on.

 

With over 500ft/lbs I run stock 17" wheels with stock tire sizes and have tons of grip

[bolarbag]

I know this is a 17or 18inch thread here, but no one has mentioned the fact that the stock j-spec tt comes with 16inch wheels, only the UK's came with 17's(facelifts too IIRC?),

 

There is a certain amount of tolerance in every design, however, going from 16 to 19inches is a great deal out of range, which is why(along with the need to run lower profile) I suspect the supra fails on handling with 19's.

 

The JGTC supra's ran 19inch(and 18") and wider wheels IIRC with not so stock chasis, they spend a ridiculous amount on R&D, perhaps more than this whole board has spent on their car in one season, if they cant make it work on a stock chasis, then I'll be damned if anyone else thinks they can

 

We can only do what we can afford, and the general consensus is stick to as stock as possible,

 

I have noticed Orida runs a 18x10.5j rear and 9j on a stock body/chasis however he is sponsored by an aftermarket suspension company

 

For general road use in the UK I'd say R18x8.5, F18x9.5, if you only drive it on motorways and not in the rain then it is possible to go 11.5wide at the rear and 10fronts, its up to your geometry specialist to make that work for you

[Wez]

I know this is a 17or 18inch thread here, but no one has mentioned the fact that the stock j-spec tt comes with 16inch wheels, only the UK's came with 17's(facelifts too IIRC?),

 

Not true, this is as untrue as all jap motors only had small brakes.

 

The JGTC supra's ran 19inch(and 18") and wider wheels IIRC with not so stock chasis, they spend a ridiculous amount on R&D, perhaps more than this whole board has spent on their car in one season, if they cant make it work on a stock chasis, then I'll be damned if anyone else thinks they can

 

The only thing a JGTC supra has in common with a road version is the rough shape and name, I think it ends there though so not really a comparison at all.

 

I have noticed Orida runs a 18x10.5j rear and 9j on a stock body/chasis however he is sponsored by an aftermarket suspension company

 

As in his drift car which is setup to go sideways?

[Jake]

no one has mentioned the fact that the stock j-spec tt comes with 16inch wheels

Because it's not a fact. Plenty of j-specs came with 17" wheels from new. Mine did.

[Jake]

most people assume that making the tyre wider gives a bigger footprint area when it doesn't.

larger tyres are better and give more of a footprint

Thanks for clearing that up.

[bolarbag]

Not true, this is as untrue as all jap motors only had small brakes.

 

http://www.mkiv.co.nz/specs.htm

 

Apparently pre-95, I thought this site was accurate, and I've seen this posted many times previously, there is a brochure with 16's, 17's as an option IIRC

 

The only thing a JGTC supra has in common with a road version is the rough shape and name, I think it ends there though so not really a comparison at all.

 

That was my point, the comparison here is if the teams of JGTC(The Early teams in particular) saw fit to modify the chasis to accomodate larger wheels then I gather it was not possible on a stock chasis.

 

Oridos street car the RSP one runs 10.5J rear,

 

There are countless other cars in the U.S who, no disrespect to our members, have far more successful cars with wider bodies, wider wheels, larger diameter wheels bla bla bla

 

It can be done but it makes the job of the suspension and geometery tester harder(meaning more cost to the customer)

fortunately for those folk in the U.S there are about 10CW's per state, and they have the fuel costs along with the weather and the tracks to enjoy their motor racing unlike us Brits!

[NeoMagic]

Thanks for clearing that up.

 

lol he means sidewall profile.

[Gaz6002]

 

There are countless other cars in the U.S who, no disrespect to our members, have far more successful cars with wider bodies, wider wheels, larger diameter wheels bla bla bla

 

It can be done but it makes the job of the suspension and geometery tester harder(meaning more cost to the customer)

fortunately for those folk in the U.S there are about 10CW's per state, and they have the fuel costs along with the weather and the tracks to enjoy their motor racing unlike us Brits!

 

Us Brits know how to go round corners though

[NeoMagic]

I'd love to have a go in a Supra with stock 17's to compare, I was quite impressed with the handling of my Supra considering its size and weight. A stock rimmed one with a decent suspension setup must be even better, which Id love to experience.

[bolarbag]

Us Brits know how to go round corners though

 

Fairpoint but we dont have anyone in the UK to go up against those twinsturbo boys or gsc boys or bla bla bla, so what use is that?

 

 

Because it's not a fact. Plenty of j-specs came with 17" wheels from new. Mine did.

 

The Fact stands - the stock j-spec tt was designed around 16inch wheels, just because 17's was an option doesnt necessarily mean the we can all quote the cars came with 17's.

 

My theory is here Toyota have exercised this tolerance in opting for 17's rather than the 16's

[Gaz6002]

Fairpoint but we dont have anyone in the UK to go up against those twinsturbo boys or gsc boys or bla bla bla, so what use is that?

 

 

And they don't have anyone to go up against Lewis Hamilton, Anothony Davidson, David Coulthard... so what use is that?

 

End of the day mate you show me a motor racing discipline where handling is a factor and the USA are on top (international race series of course).

[Jake]

The Fact stands - the stock j-spec tt was designed around 16inch wheels, just because 17's was an option doesnt necessarily mean the we can all quote the cars came with 17's.

Your 'fact' isn't a fact though, it's just your assumption.

[Ewen]

The way I see it, after reading most of the threads concerning this topic...

The larger diameter the wheel and the wider the tyre, the further away from original spec the geometry has to be changed. Your car, your call.

Seems to me that at the larger wheel / tyre sizes, the geometry is usually being changed to give longest tyre life rather than optimum handling and grip. Again, your car and money, your call.

I trust the guys on here who have been there and done that and can pass on what they have actually experienced. Thats my call.

I dont drive my car on the edge of what Toyota designed it to be capable of, but if I ever wanted to, I'd ask the advice of those who do and have, so that I could.

[bolarbag]

Your 'fact' isn't a fact though, it's just your assumption.

 

So a stock j-spec tt never came with 16's?

 

 

End of the day mate you show me a motor racing discipline where handling is a factor and the USA are on top (international race series of course).

 

Again I agree, however your blowing this out of proportion were talking mods on a supra, of which the U.S and Japan are way ahead