Dyno Plot site

[bolarbag]

Do it

 

Really want to do a T67dbb on a Cast manifold with 264 cams.

 

Would water injection be adviseable in a setup like this where a big blower is used with a cast manifold

 

I've always wondered would the egt's not be through the roof on a moderate boost level with optimum timing as the cast mani retains the heat and are generally more restrictive compared to the tubular or even the cast tubular type

 

The spool I guess would be a great bit better but if running on a stock bottom end the egt's would worry me

 

Or is the difference minimal?

[michael]

Glad to see this being done again, I remember posting a link to Dino's similar tool 4 or 5 years ago but that had an MR2 bias and isn't live anymore.

 

Should be useful once the niggles are ironed out.

[Wez]

That is a good comparison, by the the of things the stock cams make it spool a lot better, about 500rpm quicker than the 264/264's set up hich takes over later in the rev range:)

 

They even make a difference on smaller turbos.

 

Ryan: I have a SRR graph before the 264/264 cams went in if you want to add that.

[Ryan.G]

They even make a difference on smaller turbos.

 

Ryan: I have a SRR graph before the 264/264 cams went in if you want to add that.

 

 

Good stuff matey

 

In fact i will make you an admin so you can add yourself

[Ryan.G]

Would water injection be adviseable in a setup like this where a big blower is used with a cast manifold

 

I've always wondered would the egt's not be through the roof on a moderate boost level with optimum timing as the cast mani retains the heat and are generally more restrictive compared to the tubular or even the cast tubular type

 

The spool I guess would be a great bit better but if running on a stock bottom end the egt's would worry me

 

Or is the difference minimal?

 

It would have to be a case of wait and see but on other cars i have done with Cast manifold it has not been an issue.

 

If it is an issue it can be mapped around or WI can be added but with a good free flowing exhaust i can't see it being an issue TBH.

 

But thats one reason i want to map one to see how it goes

[Ryan.G]

Thats exactly what I was thinking and 'should' see my new set up (272 cams) spool later but make good power higher in the range ?

 

I think with a stock rev limiter the 256in and 264ex cams might be the best option for the t67 as with the 264 cams i have found the power just keeps climbing to the rev limit.

 

If the Rev limit of Gaz1 car was raised to 7500rpm i feel 650bhp could be possible at 1.5bar

 

Is your engine built for 8k Dean

[gaz1]

Do it

 

Really want to do a T67dbb on a Cast manifold with 264 cams.

 

i thought there would be no gains with t67dbb with 264/264 with a cast manifold against a say boostlogic, as i nearly went for one

[Wez]

i thought there would be no gains with t67dbb with 264/264 with a cast manifold against a say boostlogic, as i nearly went for one

 

Quicker spool

[gaz1]

Quicker spool

 

i can understand on a t61 but on a bigger turbo would it be noticable

[Wez]

i can understand on a t61 but on a bigger turbo would it be noticable

 

Its not been done before as far as I know, would be a good test though. An Arnout manifold would be better though as it has a little more volume than the Turbonetics unit plus the wastegate port is bigger.

[Ryan.G]

Have added a few more now including the whiftbitz cars as nice to see the Phr turbo's.

 

Again any owners who have a Print from SRR put it on the thread and either Wes or myself will add.

 

Arhh its nice to have day off

 

Ryan

[Wez]

I have added my car with stock cams so you can see the difference on same dyno with the same turbo.

[bolarbag]

i can understand on a t61 but on a bigger turbo would it be noticable

 

Wouldnt the difference be more noticeable on a bigger turbo?

 

I think arnouts type manifold would defo cause egt issues,

 

the restriction of the turbo is brought closer to the exhaust side of the engine, increasing backpressure(engine to turbo) for a longer duration, there would be quicker spool but at what cost - water injection would be a must, and you would strangle power with the risk of exhaust gas going back into the chamber with longer duration cams, high boost and high revs, not to mention are your components may not be up to the task

 

I would like to proved wrong because that would be an awesome setup, preferably test on a built engine first:)

I wouldnt expect more than 550bhp tho even with a 67

[Wez]

I wouldnt expect more than 550bhp tho even with a 67

 

Really, mine made 560hp 520ft/lbs on the smaller turbonetics manifold without WI and my EGT were fine with a CW SMIC.

 

This is also on a smaller turbo which is working harder and generating more heat

 

EDIT: just to add, Arnout was looking into T67 sized turbos when designing the manifold.

[bolarbag]

Really, mine made 560hp 520ft/lbs on the smaller turbonetics manifold without WI and my EGT were fine with a CW SMIC.

 

This is also on a smaller turbo which is working harder and generating more heat

 

EDIT: just to add, Arnout was looking into T67 sized turbos when designing the manifold.

 

Would the 60-1 be working harder though - I doubt it, the power provided would all be in its efficiency range whereas any benefit the 67 will bring will be later on up the rev range - by which time I expect the little mani to be restricting flow so its swings and roundabouts

 

Do you still run that manifold? Cant someone donate a 67 to test:innocent:

 

What was your egt's do you have them to hand?

[Wez]

Do you still run that manifold? Cant someone donate a 67 to test:innocent:

 

What was your egt's do you have them to hand?

 

I am currently still on the Turbonetics, for a T67DBB I would say the Arnout manifold is more suited.

 

My EGTs are approx 800 to 850 on full throttle, this is measured in the collector before the turbo in the manifold.

[bolarbag]

I am currently still on the Turbonetics, for a T67DBB I would say the Arnout manifold is more suited.

 

My EGTs are approx 800 to 850 on full throttle, this is measured in the collector before the turbo in the manifold.

 

Is it a T4 flange? I'm curious now to see what this would be like, surely someone has done this before, werent those arnouts and turbonetics mani's popular in the states?What size of WG do you have?

[Wez]

Both manifolds have a T4 flange, arnouts manifold has a larger wastegate flange but I run a HKS GT 60mm wastegate on my Turbonetics without any issue.

 

I believe Arnouts manifold has been pushed beyond 700 US hp with a turbo bigger than a T67.

[SupraShaun]

Ok i have ammended this now so that torque is displayed as a dotted/ dashed line

[Wez]

Ok i have ammended this now so that torque is displayed as a dotted/ dashed line

 

[Nic]

Very good site Ryan

 

When I compared my dyno to some of the others, I was very surprised how quickly mine seems to spool up compared to other similar sized turbos. Mine was not dyno'd at SSR, so obviously not a direct comparison, but it was the same type of dyno, in same shoot out mode and same gear.

 

If you compare these 2 graphs and see what power each is making at 4K rpm you'll see what I mean. Both are similar sized turbos, at the same boost, with the same cam spec.

 

T61 at 1.3bar with in256/ex264

http://img519.imageshack.us/img519/4412/picture1vi8.png

 

Garrett GT35R at 1.3bar with in256/ex264

http://img167.imageshack.us/img167/6336/542hpdyno2wa4.jpg

Edited June 11, 2008 by Nic (see edit history)

[Ryan.G]

Very good site Ryan :thumb:

 

When I compared my dyno to some of the others, I was very surprised how quickly mine seems to spool up compared to other similar sized turbos. Mine was not dyno'd at SSR, so obviously not a direct comparison, but it was the same type of dyno, in same shoot out mode and same gear.

 

If you compare these 2 graphs and see what power each is making at 4K rpm you'll see what I mean. Both are similar sized turbos, at the same boost, with the same cam spec.

 

T61 at 1.3bar with in256/ex264

http://img519.imageshack.us/img519/4412/picture1vi8.png

 

Garrett GT35R at 1.3bar with in256/ex264

http://img167.imageshack.us/img167/6336/542hpdyno2wa4.jpg

 

 

Hi Nic

 

Yes the Gt35DBB will spool alot faster than pretty much all the Turbo's on that page. Here is another which spools nicely like yours.

 

http://www.mkivsupra.net/vbb/vbpicgallery.php?do=view&g=1842

 

You love to post that graph dont you Nic

 

After having to play around with Wes's speed based boost control to make traction i imagine yours is a nightmare with wheel spin below 4th gear with a power curve like that.

 

Drifters would dream of that power low down

 

Ryan

[bolarbag]

 

Isn't this more of a comparison to yours NIC

 

Yours does still look as if it spools a lot quicker than anyone elses

 

The fuel octane and the power conversion factor comes into play there too, 1PS = 0.9863hp

 

You made 535bhp which brings you into line with the best of them, your mapping looks spot on tho, very nice torque graph yours

 

Ha Ryan beat me to it;)

Edited June 11, 2008 by bolarbag (see edit history)

[Ryan.G]

Im fairly sure its not the same shoot mode either as shoot F modes have not been in use for long and that does look like an old print as none of the settings at the bottom are listed.

 

Ryan

[Tricky-Ricky]

Interesting site Ryan, i can see why my GT4088 feels so flat in the midrange in comparison to TTC hybrids:(