Hypothetically Speaking

[Matt H]

After seeing JamieP's awesome dyno graph of his SC Monaro, it got me thinking about Super Chargers and the supra.

 

After a little bit of discussion on Jamies thread, i thought i'd start this one on the topic.

 

So hypothetically speaking, with a high boost, what do we think about the possibility of charging the 2JZ GTE engine to 500bhp.

 

Possible? not possible, maybe?

 

Please discuss.

[NeoMagic]

Don't do it!

[JustGav]

It is always possible. In fact one of the best locations to put the charger would in place of the aircon compressor.

 

The big problem with superchargers is that they are heavily parasitic when it comes to their own loading, and as such the gains aren't as big. That said a supercharger will provide low down boost.

 

I believe Arnout did a twin charged engine a while back.

[Alex]

Supercharging isn't very efficient, parasitic losses etc. V engine's though from a packaging perspective lend themselves well to it.

 

You could SC the Supra but to get enough power out of it to match a GT35R would require a big investment.

[JustGav]

I did at one stage think of combining portions of the AC compressor and supercharger for a twin charged system, using the supercharger at low revs to get the low down boost and then have the AC clutch mounted onto the supercharger, so that the supercharger can be engaged and disengaged as required. The big issue with that is a) how long would the AC clutch last and could it handle the supercharger loads, b) how do you handle the cut over from supercharger to turbocharger.

[Scott]

I did at one stage think of combining portions of the AC compressor and supercharger for a twin charged system, using the supercharger at low revs to get the low down boost and then have the AC clutch mounted onto the supercharger, so that the supercharger can be engaged and disengaged as required. The big issue with that is a) how long would the AC clutch last and could it handle the supercharger loads, b) how do you handle the cut over from supercharger to turbocharger.

 

Strangely reading that made me think of back to the future 3. You know the bit with the train at the end where they stick in the lumps of fuel to get the train going faster.

[JustGav]

Strangely reading that made me think of back to the future 3. You know the bit with the train at the end where they stick in the lumps of fuel to get the train going faster.

 

hahahaha, a wood fueled supra

[Ian R]

IIRC the Lancia Delta S4 used supercharger and turbo how did they do it ??

[NeoMagic]

Nissan Micra Super Turbo, theres a few cars with both out there, some Honda boys in the US have done it.

[JustGav]

IIRC the Lancia Delta S4 used supercharger and turbo how did they do it ??

 

Doing it isn't the difficult part, it is easy enough to mount up both units, it is making them work so you end up with a positive value rather than a negative parasitic value. Once the turbo spins up the supercharger effectively acts as a HUGE load both on the engine and as a restriction on the airflow.

[Matt H]

I'd only ever consider it if 500bhp was attainable. would be pretty pointless to swap my hybrid set up it i was only going to get as much or less than it (if you take cost into the equation)

 

but like turbos, cant you get bigger chargers, or have tyhem running at higher boosts? obviously the bigger they are the more power they will sap to get them spinning but would'nt the overall gain be advantageous..

 

You be looking at trying to get 250-300bhp out of the supercharger. has this been done on any stock cars etc with similar capacity?

[JustGav]

Here you go

 

http://www.capa.com.au/eaton_mp90_4th.htm

 

I've got an Eaton 45 at home as a door stop, haven't found anything suitable to put it on yet?

[Matt H]

Here you go

 

http://www.capa.com.au/eaton_mp90_4th.htm

 

I've got an Eaton 45 at home as a door stop, haven't found anything suitable to put it on yet?

 

40% increase in power tho, so thats about stock TT level

[NeoMagic]

I'd only ever consider it if 500bhp was attainable. would be pretty pointless to swap my hybrid set up it i was only going to get as much or less than it (if you take cost into the equation)

 

but like turbos, cant you get bigger chargers, or have tyhem running at higher boosts? obviously the bigger they are the more power they will sap to get them spinning but would'nt the overall gain be advantageous..

 

You be looking at trying to get 250-300bhp out of the supercharger. has this been done on any stock cars etc with similar capacity?

 

Playing around with different pulleys can change the amount of boost they produce as well, a specific charger can produce more than one level of power.

[Matt H]

from the dyno graphs on that link it would be pretty pointless if you start off with a 230bhp engine and then aim for 40% increase

[Nic]

There was a guy in Aus who fitted a Whipple SC on an 2JZGE engine and said he was making 410hp ,437nm of torque @ 6.7psi, he estimated at 14psi it should be good for around 490-510hp and around 550-600nm of torque, but sold the car I think before getting to that stage.

 

http://www.whipplesuperchargers.com/product.asp?ProdID=1162

[Matt H]

There was a guy in Aus who fitted a Whipple SC on an 2JZGE engine and said he was making 410hp ,437nm of torque @ 6.7psi, he estimated at 14psi it should be good for around 490-510hp and around 550-600nm of torque, but sold the car I think before getting to that stage.

 

http://www.whipplesuperchargers.com/product.asp?ProdID=1162

 

490-510hp from a charger @ 1 bar seems to good to be true! if thats true it would be a fantastic mod

[paul mac]

Matt i think you are forgetting one important factor here, forget the supercharger or turbocharger the Monaro has one big advantage over the supe, namely a whopping great all aluminium 6.0 litre small block V8 LS2 chevy engine, ok its old school pushrod technology but cubic inchs its definately not short of, they are absolute torque monsters, Jamie's is pushing nearly 600 hp thats only a very conservatively stressed 100 bhp per litre (most singles on here are running 150-200hp per litre) so its still got all the low down grunt, a supra could never emulate this as its got 3 litre less capacity regardless of being supercharged or not

[SimonB]

Someone on here was planning a twin charged setup (supercharger and turbo) ages ago. Don't think anything ever came of it in the end.