SilverSoop Posted May 11, 2008 Share Posted May 11, 2008 The dyno records RW torque, from which it calculates rwhp (so the figure of 242rwhp can is the 'true' reading from the dyno). At the most optimistic the auto box loses 25% of the engine output, so a realistic flywheel figure would be between 305 and 310bhp. This is a little low for 1.15bar, but with the 1st cat in place it's going to be a huge restriction on the system. It's really unwise to run more than 0.9 car with the 1st cat in place due to EGT issues. The dyno run is still worth it as you have your rwhp figure (the one we all prefer to use here when doing comparisons), just ignore the flywheel one as they're almost impossible to calculate with auto's on a wheel/hub driven dyno. with 1.2bar you should be seeing about 330rwhp on the auto, 350rwhp on the 6spd. So clearly some more work needed to get your hp where is should be for the boost level. Darryl, when you say the Boost level should not be more than 0.9 bar...do you mean the first or second turbo?? I'm getting my 2nd decat fitted on friday but atm, my first turbo is running at 0.9 bar and the second at 1.1 bar... Is this ok, or would it be recommended to lower the boost level?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaymdee Posted May 11, 2008 Share Posted May 11, 2008 Not bad, they only had 200 out of the factory. Either thats an extremely dodgy dyno or your mate is running more than stock boost, or other choice mods. I'm guessing that its a rev 3? FWHP is 245 stock and a rev 1/2 is 220 stock Dyno run says 0.8Bar which I have been told is stock. Surrey RR is reckoned to be very accurate. It's mine too, bought it on Friday. Yes it's a rev 3. Has downpipe and a 14psi actuator spring (standard is 13.5psi) but no other performance mods. Previous owner said he'd always been told by people that it was a very quick, virtually standard car Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaymdee Posted May 11, 2008 Share Posted May 11, 2008 Darryl, when you say the Boost level should not be more than 0.9 bar...do you mean the first or second turbo?? I'm getting my 2nd decat fitted on friday but atm, my first turbo is running at 0.9 bar and the second at 1.1 bar... Is this ok, or would it be recommended to lower the boost level?? I'm guessing Darryl means when both turbos are online. You don't want T1 hitting 0.9Bar. Way out of it's efficiency range and running very hot at that pressure. What mods are doing that? My BPU runs 0.7 on the first turbo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SilverSoop Posted May 11, 2008 Share Posted May 11, 2008 (edited) I'm guessing Darryl means when both turbos are online. You don't want T1 hitting 0.9Bar. Way out of it's efficiency range and running very hot at that pressure. What mods are doing that? My BPU runs 0.7 on the first turbo Hmmm ok im pretty much BPU except for a walbro pump, an afr and egt guage and a double decat. Also not sure if she has got colder graded spark plugs though and i am getting the 2nd cat decatted on friday... So you think i should turn the EBC down to 0.7 for T1 and T2 would be at 0.9... Edited May 11, 2008 by SilverSoop (see edit history) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaymdee Posted May 11, 2008 Share Posted May 11, 2008 Hmmm ok im pretty much BPU except for a walbro pump, an afr and egt guage and a double decat. Also not sure if she has got colder graded spark plugs though and i am getting the 2nd cat decatted on friday... So you think i should turn the EBC down to 0.7 for T1 and T2 would be at 0.9... Don't know much about EBC's mate, but after 0.7Bar you're stressing the first turbo needlessly as it will be running so hot that the extra boost isn't adding any extra power. I'm guessing you've got the first decat, not double at the moment, if you're getting the scond one done on Friday. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Homer Posted May 11, 2008 Share Posted May 11, 2008 Hmmm ok im pretty much BPU except for a walbro pump, an afr and egt guage and a double decat. Also not sure if she has got colder graded spark plugs though and i am getting the 2nd cat decatted on friday... So you think i should turn the EBC down to 0.7 for T1 and T2 would be at 0.9... As I said to you before Shane, you really need to get those cats out of there if you're going to be going for more than 0.9 bar. The EGT's will increase significantly once boost starts rising. The Walbro is not such a concern on your car as it's much newer/lower mileage than most, but the cats are the first concern. Give me a call if you need a chat about your plans. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SilverSoop Posted May 12, 2008 Share Posted May 12, 2008 As I said to you before Shane, you really need to get those cats out of there if you're going to be going for more than 0.9 bar. The EGT's will increase significantly once boost starts rising. The Walbro is not such a concern on your car as it's much newer/lower mileage than most, but the cats are the first concern. Give me a call if you need a chat about your plans. Ok thanks darryl will do. Im getting a 2nd decat done on friday by mark at phoenix but im leaving the first cat in from advice by mark until i start upgrading the whole engine and the turbo's... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SilverSoop Posted May 12, 2008 Share Posted May 12, 2008 (edited) Don't know much about EBC's mate, but after 0.7Bar you're stressing the first turbo needlessly as it will be running so hot that the extra boost isn't adding any extra power. I'm guessing you've got the first decat, not double at the moment, if you're getting the scond one done on Friday. Yeh i have got a double decat sitting at home but on advice, i am only putting the 2nd decat in for now as i dont want to overspeed the turbo's. Im only going to put the first decat in once my engine and turbo work is underway... Edit: The EBC is the electronic boost controller... Edited May 12, 2008 by SilverSoop (see edit history) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Posted May 12, 2008 Share Posted May 12, 2008 Ok thanks darryl will do. Im getting a 2nd decat done on friday by mark at phoenix but im leaving the first cat in from advice by mark until i start upgrading the whole engine and the turbo's... That seems a bit strange to me. I've got a double de-cat going in on wednesday. I always thought it was better for the turbo's to put in the 1st cat. The 2nd cat was more for noise and a little extra grunt. As long as you have a restrictor ring (get 1 bar if your not sure) you should be fine and dandy. Are your engine/turbo's broken? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SilverSoop Posted May 12, 2008 Share Posted May 12, 2008 That seems a bit strange to me. I've got a double de-cat going in on wednesday. I always thought it was better for the turbo's to put in the 1st cat. The 2nd cat was more for noise and a little extra grunt. As long as you have a restrictor ring (get 1 bar if your not sure) you should be fine and dandy. Are your engine/turbo's broken? No the engine and turbo's aren't not broken but its just incase something happens. The risk is very low but as you start to pull away from the manufacturer's spec, there is always a potential risk for something to go boom. And atm, i cant afford a set of new turbo's if something was to to go wrong. So im sticking to the 2nd decat until i start on my engine/turbo work.... Oh dont forget, when you are getting your decat put in, you also need 2 exhaust gaskets and an exhaust gasket from the downpipe because otherwise, you might have trouble later on. If you dont have them, Toyota will... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Posted May 12, 2008 Share Posted May 12, 2008 i have 2 exhaust gaskets but not the turbo to downpipe one. Will the one thats on there not do? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JODY T Posted May 12, 2008 Share Posted May 12, 2008 Barrys car is a strong one, the engine and turbos are in tiptop condition.. The car was tuned in 3rd and the print out was done in 4th to get a top speed figure as Barry wanted to know... It hit the limiter at 180MPH.. As with Silversoop and Phoenix, I explained to barry that the turbos would run hotter with a cat but for the amount of time that you are using 1.2bar at WOT the temps (EGTs) are not so much of an issue.. What was more of an issue was his car running lean at 1.0bar, so a Walbro was fitted and the issue was sorted... I have seen many a car with this set up, and to this day only a few turbo failures.. Ive seen/heard of more singles dying than this issue.. Remember not everything you read is true depending on how you look at it.. Remember also Im not a mapper/tuner and dont profess to be, something i leave to Dave.. He has the experiance and the company to back it up (Its his!) Since i have been here only one car blew up and we all knew including the customer that it would... An A3 Quattro Diesel running Nitrous and Propaine! All the advice we give is relivant to experiance not what someone has posted on the internet.. I dont like to assume, better to work from first hand knowledge.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SilverSoop Posted May 12, 2008 Share Posted May 12, 2008 i have 2 exhaust gaskets but not the turbo to downpipe one. Will the one thats on there not do? No because its probabaly never come off in its life and it wont be any good scotster... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thorin Posted May 12, 2008 Share Posted May 12, 2008 If you're only replacing one cat you should do the 1st, you're still not going to see more than 0.9 bar with the second one in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheekymonkey Posted May 12, 2008 Share Posted May 12, 2008 Stick mine on the RR while it's there mate, should get an impressive figure on your Dyno, not like that stingy SRR one Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JODY T Posted May 12, 2008 Share Posted May 12, 2008 (edited) Scrap that.. Memory is playing up lol Edited May 12, 2008 by JODY T (see edit history) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheekymonkey Posted May 12, 2008 Share Posted May 12, 2008 Calm down Jody Both my cats were out when I got 425 (you should know that since you did the exhaust work ) I seem to remember getting 397 at the fly with the first cat still in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JODY T Posted May 12, 2008 Share Posted May 12, 2008 i am calm bud :D ide forgotten about that bit of work! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheekymonkey Posted May 12, 2008 Share Posted May 12, 2008 Im glad that my car's wiring isn't stressing you out too much Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JODY T Posted May 12, 2008 Share Posted May 12, 2008 love it! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaymdee Posted May 12, 2008 Share Posted May 12, 2008 If you're only replacing one cat you should do the 1st, you're still not going to see more than 0.9 bar with the second one in. Agree. Removing the second CAT while keeping the first in place seems daft. Your're not going to get much extra boost and what you do get will cause the temps to rise too much. I'd replace the first CAT with the decat and keep the second CAT in place if you're worried. Shane - I know what an EBC is mate, just don't know how they work. eg setting different amounts of boost in different gears, RPMs etc. Are you sure you're seeing 0.9Bar on the first turbo - I'd be worried about that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest bazza. Posted May 12, 2008 Share Posted May 12, 2008 As I live in Germany the last thing i need is to have to Been the Cat back with me for the MOT each year. If I was in England fair play I would but as we all know These not alot of room in the car and on the way back The car was full and I do mean full. All I can say is the car feels alot better all round and I know I'd take the car back there to Interpro with no Worries Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SilverSoop Posted May 13, 2008 Share Posted May 13, 2008 (edited) Agree. Removing the second CAT while keeping the first in place seems daft. Your're not going to get much extra boost and what you do get will cause the temps to rise too much. I'd replace the first CAT with the decat and keep the second CAT in place if you're worried. Shane - I know what an EBC is mate, just don't know how they work. eg setting different amounts of boost in different gears, RPMs etc. Are you sure you're seeing 0.9Bar on the first turbo - I'd be worried about that. Sorry jamdee, didnt think you knew what an EBC was by the way you said it in your post didnt mean to sound condescending... I know but advice from mark at phoenix was to try the 2nd decat first as my 2nd cat has gone and after my gearbox problems, the "technicians" failed to fit my exhaust on properly... So im going to go to a full de-cat but im just protecting the turbo's, as you know a full de-cat can cause them to overspeed. And atm, i dont have the cash to replace them so im playing it safe for the moment until i do have the cash for 'problems' Edit: Why doesn't 0.9 bar sound ok for the first turbo?? Its only a matter of turning the knob up on the EBC another notch to produce more boost. I have turned the EBC down now to standard boost... Edited May 13, 2008 by SilverSoop (see edit history) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaymdee Posted May 13, 2008 Share Posted May 13, 2008 Sorry jamdee, didnt think you knew what an EBC was by the way you said it in your post didnt mean to sound condescending... I know but advice from mark at phoenix was to try the 2nd decat first as my 2nd cat has gone and after my gearbox problems, the "technicians" failed to fit my exhaust on properly... So im going to go to a full de-cat but im just protecting the turbo's, as you know a full de-cat can cause them to overspeed. And atm, i dont have the cash to replace them so im playing it safe for the moment until i do have the cash for 'problems' Edit: Why doesn't 0.9 bar sound ok for the first turbo?? Its only a matter of turning the knob up on the EBC another notch to produce more boost. I have turned the EBC down now to standard boost... At what RPM are you seeing 0.9bar? Each stock turbo won't produce any more power at 0.9Bar than at 0.7Bar (due to heat soak) and their life expectancy will be a hell of a lot shorter. I also believe I recall some people saying that their cars produced the same power at 1.4Bar than at 1.2Bar on dynos, so no advantage runnig them at 1.4 and much more risk of destroying them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris and Alana Posted May 14, 2008 Share Posted May 14, 2008 My auto (soarer) lost 60 horse between crank and wheels on an estimated crank output of 385, thats some idea. I have a TT auto and made an at the wheels figure of 310bhp and an estimated fly wheel figure of 369bhp. Thats a transmition loss of 59bhp which is about a 19% loss. Oh and that was at 1bar, I now have an EBC and can run 1.2 when ever I want so would like to see the difference, hope to make close to 400bhp at the fly Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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