Mike B Posted May 5, 2008 Share Posted May 5, 2008 Two Knock sensors... one front one back, as used by the VVTi FBW throttle. Plugged in the voltmeter to the ecu harmess to see what was going on.. at idle one is 0.27 volts.. decreasing to 0.17 volts under load. the other is 0.27 volts.. increasing to 0.34 volts under load. logic says one is not working properly, my money is on the first with the voltage drop. any comments? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wez Posted May 5, 2008 Share Posted May 5, 2008 When you say under load, is that reving the engine or driving on boost, if so they are both very quiet. Are they the same as the non VVTI models? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wez Posted May 5, 2008 Share Posted May 5, 2008 Just to add the back one will be a little noiser as its closer to the gearbox and can pickup some transmission noise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike B Posted May 5, 2008 Author Share Posted May 5, 2008 under load, about 1.15 bar at compressor housing, though to 5k I thought they were quiet too. I expected a 0-2 volt at least. pushed my timing forward too. Plugged the meter into lots of other pots to mave a look too, MAF etc and all seemed to behave perfectly, so voltmeter is happy. I have just ordered an innovate as well. Been told it is 100% money back compatible with obd II vvti supra. now my car will be able to talk to me Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike B Posted May 5, 2008 Author Share Posted May 5, 2008 Just to add the back one will be a little noiser as its closer to the gearbox and can pickup some transmission noise. yeah, but one goes the wrong way!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wez Posted May 5, 2008 Share Posted May 5, 2008 I have just ordered an innovate as well. Been told it is 100% money back compatible with obd II vvti supra. But you are running FCON, is it piggyback or does it replace the stock ECU? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ryan.G Posted May 6, 2008 Share Posted May 6, 2008 Mike Scoping the voltage will be hard with a multimeter chap as ideally you will need the time scale to be around 500 ms. Also you need to have the Positive terminal on the voltage generated pin and the Negative on the ground ref. An oscilloscope is really needed to monitor the sensor properly. Next time im up your way i will bring my Picoscope and will be able to help you more. Also might be able to connect to your ecu Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike B Posted May 6, 2008 Author Share Posted May 6, 2008 Mike Scoping the voltage will be hard with a multimeter chap as ideally you will need the time scale to be around 500 ms. Also you need to have the Positive terminal on the voltage generated pin and the Negative on the ground ref. very true! I had not thought about the sample rate... still both sensors should give the same results even with imperfect measuring tools? I'm thinking of buying a ks3 as about the most accurate sensor I can see, just so I can keep my eye on things independantly of the stock system. I'd replace the factory sensors as a matter of course when I fit this one. http://www.phormula.co.uk/KnockDetection-KS-3.aspx An oscilloscope is really needed to monitor the sensor properly. Next time im up your way i will bring my Picoscope and will be able to help you more. Also might be able to connect to your ecu really? ... but are you any good at safe cracking ?? Actually, I'm just about to order an innovate obd-ii reader, so I can datalog the car more effectively, but mainly as a last ditch attempt to find out why the fbw is so uppity. If I can't find out why I'll be asking you and Michel about the removal conversion you do, and I will live with the det monitor on the dashboard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike B Posted May 6, 2008 Author Share Posted May 6, 2008 But you are running FCON, is it piggyback or does it replace the stock ECU? Fcon handles the engine in it's entirity as a stand alone, but the stock ecu controls the throttle. It still sees all the feeds, but has no connection to anything it can effect; it's just there to run the fbw throttle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ryan.G Posted May 6, 2008 Share Posted May 6, 2008 The sensors will give out different voltages. I normally find the sensor at the back is the noisey one. Trickyricky has one of those KS3 things but i still feel it needs more testing to see if when i hear knock it actually registers it. I have tried their new knock tuning box thing for listening through the headphones and wasn't that impressed compared to my knockbox. Safe cracking I have seen the software now and tbh its just like a powerfc screen setup. Stay with your setup for the time being...... very true! I had not thought about the sample rate... still both sensors should give the same results even with imperfect measuring tools? I'm thinking of buying a ks3 as about the most accurate sensor I can see, just so I can keep my eye on things independantly of the stock system. I'd replace the factory sensors as a matter of course when I fit this one. http://www.phormula.co.uk/KnockDetection-KS-3.aspx really? ... but are you any good at safe cracking ?? Actually, I'm just about to order an innovate obd-ii reader, so I can datalog the car more effectively, but mainly as a last ditch attempt to find out why the fbw is so uppity. If I can't find out why I'll be asking you and Michel about the removal conversion you do, and I will live with the det monitor on the dashboard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tricky-Ricky Posted May 6, 2008 Share Posted May 6, 2008 Yes as Ryan says i have had the KS-2/3 for a while now, and in general it seems to be fairly consistent once set up right, however i do occasionally get what i think is a spurious reading, now i can log the readings from the KS-3 and also the readings from the std sensors via the EMU but the KS-3 is far more sensitive, so if that means I'm on the safe side fine. It has always surprised and worried me that the std sensor feedback system doesn't seem to react much to what other sensors/det cans pick up? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike B Posted May 6, 2008 Author Share Posted May 6, 2008 I have tried their new knock tuning box thing for listening through the headphones and wasn't that impressed compared to my knockbox. I did consider a knockbox, as you can get a 0-5v preout from them, but the green flashing lights look imprecise to say the least! Yes as Ryan says i have had the KS-2/3 for a while now, and in general it seems to be fairly consistent once set up right, however i do occasionally get what i think is a spurious reading, now i can log the readings from the KS-3 and also the readings from the std sensors via the EMU but the KS-3 is far more sensitive, so if that means I'm on the safe side fine. my thoughts exactly. The fact that you do get the odd surious reading is no bad thing, for it may be an accurate spurious reading! It has always surprised and worried me that the std sensor feedback system doesn't seem to react much to what other sensors/det cans pick up? kind of why I'd like to use your ks3 system, so at least I have an accurate idea of what is happening. The demo looks good, although not 100% accurate it shows a good more info than the traffic light knocklink. I'd want to take it apart though and mount it on the dash instead of that big box! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike B Posted May 6, 2008 Author Share Posted May 6, 2008 ps, thanks for the replies guys, appreciated Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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