Muffleman Posted April 22, 2008 Share Posted April 22, 2008 Anyone know just how far you can go with stock twins in terms of power ? Ta Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest DaveWilko Posted April 22, 2008 Share Posted April 22, 2008 Jap or UK spec? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muffleman Posted April 22, 2008 Author Share Posted April 22, 2008 Ah yes, JDM Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest DaveWilko Posted April 22, 2008 Share Posted April 22, 2008 The search button is your friend Anyhow I used it and there seems to be a lot of controversy around what is possible. Anywhere between 380-430 was mentioned (at the flywheel) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest DaveWilko Posted April 22, 2008 Share Posted April 22, 2008 Oh my face is red! I'm tellin you to do a search when you have 5072 posts! lol How come you're only askin that now? Are you tryin to reawaken the old argument? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muffleman Posted April 22, 2008 Author Share Posted April 22, 2008 The search button is your friend Thanks mate, I'll have a looky Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Homer Posted April 22, 2008 Share Posted April 22, 2008 GrahamC managed about 380rwhp on his hyrbid car with pretty much every mod you could make (WI, cams, standalone with Ryan.G map). This was at SRR so about as reliable as you can get for 'realistic' hp figure I can't imagine the jdm's being able to flow more than the hybrids, so I'd hazard a guess that 370bhp at the wheels is absolute max on a 6spd. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muffleman Posted April 22, 2008 Author Share Posted April 22, 2008 Thanks Daryl, I know our figures tend to be a little more conservative than SRR but I'm still thinking about Tucky40's car - are we chasing power that might not be there to be made. 398bhp at 0.8bar with 256/264, AEM by Ryan etc. As we increased the boost, we didn't see anymore power. Ryan's thought was that the restrictor ring was too small, and we will test that when Ben\Tucky40 next comes down. But I did wonder if 400bhp flywheel was near the turbos limits given they aren't new Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ryan.G Posted April 22, 2008 Share Posted April 22, 2008 This is the best i have got out of Stock twins but im not one for chasing numbers so TBH there could be another 10-15bhp by squeezing in a few more degrees but i felt this was enough in regards of EGT's and boost level http://www.mkivsupra.net/vbb/showthread.php?t=142230&highlight=nice+curves Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tucky40 Posted April 22, 2008 Share Posted April 22, 2008 Ryan to clarify could you just say again why there was no power gain from a boost increase?? if i understand correct you gain power from advancing the timing? you could advance the timing at 0.8 due to temps being low. As you added boost the temps got higher so you had to retard the timing and hence lose power? If so then we need to get egts down in order to allow for timing adjustment at higher boost settings? hence trying to reduce the back pressure to hopefully reduce egts? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sean1933 Posted April 22, 2008 Share Posted April 22, 2008 Ryan to clarify could you just say again why there was no power gain from a boost increase?? if i understand correct you gain power from advancing the timing? you could advance the timing at 0.8 due to temps being low. As you added boost the temps got higher so you had to retard the timing and hence lose power? If so then we need to get egts down in order to allow for timing adjustment at higher boost settings? hence trying to reduce the back pressure to hopefully reduce egts? Im pretty sure thats what hes getting at mate. The more timing advance, the more efficient burn therefore more compression, thus more power. If your not already running it then Water/Meth injection would cool the temps down enough to allow more advance and should release more power. However if you map to WI then you have to make sure the bottle is never empty else you will run too high EGT's and risk damaging something. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Homer Posted April 22, 2008 Share Posted April 22, 2008 What was the rwhp Matt? Flywheel isn't really important to us folks is it Unless you engine dyno'd it, which is a whole other matter. Mine consistently made 355-360rwhp over 3 years at SRR on the stock turbo's but it was right on the edge of running lean (and at 1.2bar boost in the summer) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sharpie Posted April 22, 2008 Share Posted April 22, 2008 Didn't Terry S push his to the very limits before he went the single route ? I seem to remember he spent $$$$ chasing the numbers with Leon.....long time ago. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sharpie Posted April 22, 2008 Share Posted April 22, 2008 Oops, sorry, it was just on 500 BHP on hybrids, race fuel etc...so not stock twins. http://www.mkivsupra.net/vbb/showpost.php?p=21910&postcount=26 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ryan.G Posted April 23, 2008 Share Posted April 23, 2008 Ryan to clarify could you just say again why there was no power gain from a boost increase?? if i understand correct you gain power from advancing the timing? you could advance the timing at 0.8 due to temps being low. As you added boost the temps got higher so you had to retard the timing and hence lose power? If so then we need to get egts down in order to allow for timing adjustment at higher boost settings? hence trying to reduce the back pressure to hopefully reduce egts? http://www.mkivsupra.net/vbb/showpost.php?p=1910484&postcount=11 As the car was running 1.2bar before mapping the car will be down on torque now as the boost pressure is alot lower for safety. When I increased the boost it did make more Torque, as the peak on your setup is made when the car comes on boost hence that pinned in the seat feeling. At this point when it came on boost the Egt's are not an issue but as the RPM increases on high boost the Temps got too hot hence why the boost was lowered. Get the RR opened up, triple check for no boost leaks ie. by pressurising the system and then bring it over to SRR one evening Rome was not built in a day mate Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ryan.G Posted April 23, 2008 Share Posted April 23, 2008 If so then we need to get egts down in order to allow for timing adjustment at higher boost settings? hence trying to reduce the back pressure to hopefully reduce egts? Yup have a read here mate on Abnormal combustion and Pre-ignition http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Engine_knocking Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JustGav Posted April 23, 2008 Share Posted April 23, 2008 I'll have to be the voice of reason here... Unless you are planning on just pushing it till it goes bang running ANYTHING this close to the ragged line will end up going pop. Might not happen straight away but for the sake of an extra 20bhp pub power it seems crazy to remove your safety margins..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muffleman Posted April 23, 2008 Author Share Posted April 23, 2008 http://img150.imageshack.us/img150/7044/tucky4008barzj6.jpg Don't think Ben will mind me posting this for discussion, quite a nice torque curve though Bit feint I know but keeping file size down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tucky40 Posted April 23, 2008 Share Posted April 23, 2008 justgav i appreciate what your saying and i agree that things shouldnt be pushed to the limit but we are not talking about over stressing the car. Ryan has mapped the car very conservatively with regards to temps and we are only running the boost at 0.8. Hardly stressing the car as far as i can see. Would just be nice to find more power if there is some to be found especially if its something as simple as a restrictor ring. It has been proven that there is a fair bit more power to be made 'safely' with stock parts so why not try. Every single one of us wants to unlock the potential of our cars and im no different. Matt, Ryan and myself are not going to do anything to risk the health of my engine so im more than happy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
letmeshowyou Posted April 24, 2008 Share Posted April 24, 2008 Ben, have you had any dyno readings from previous states of tune? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tucky40 Posted April 24, 2008 Share Posted April 24, 2008 Mate It produced around 380bhp at about 1.2 bar with stock ecu and stock cams. Now its around 400 at 0.8 bar, So 20bhp more with 0.4bar of boost less. Thats why it would be nice to get a good reading at 1.2 bar with the new set up to get a nice comparison. Will be adding an egt sensor and removing or changing the RR on monday with Matt. With an egt sensor Ryan can map the car so that if temps get high the aem will add a little fuel on its own giving even more peace of mind. For those that have thought of getting cams, i have noticed a real difference on the road. It pulls extremely well all the way from 5000-7000rpm, whereas before there would be a noticable tail off. The power drops by 5bhp max between this rev range making for much better performance even if the on paper gains aren.t huge. If nothing is gained on monday then i may consider spending the extra dosh and going for a nice street single. After all everything I have done so far has been with future proofing in mind so it shouldnt cost too much. Ben Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
letmeshowyou Posted April 24, 2008 Share Posted April 24, 2008 For those that have thought of getting cams, i have noticed a real difference on the road that's why I asked the question aswell - I've been thinking about it for a while now Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tucky40 Posted April 24, 2008 Share Posted April 24, 2008 Its definately a noticable step without going singel but its not cheap mate. Your looking at around £500 for the cams and labour isnt cheap if you want it done properly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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