supratoy Posted April 22, 2008 Share Posted April 22, 2008 Hi, I've got the full UK set up on my supra with braided lines and cw fast road pads but I still dont think the bite and stopping power is enough(this is on road not track driving). Should I try different disk and pads or just go for a new big brake kit? If I should go for a big brake kit I am thinking about the brembo monoblock 6pot caliper kit, anyone know if they will fit behind the tte wheels or has anyone got big brakes on a tte wheel? Any help is good help. Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colsoop Posted April 22, 2008 Share Posted April 22, 2008 You must be hitting serious speeds on the road to not think uk brakes are enough. Perhaps the compound of the pads isn't right for your needs. maybe a different compound with a better initial bite would be better ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thorin Posted April 22, 2008 Share Posted April 22, 2008 Can you brake hard enough for the ABS to kick in? If yes then there's no reason to "upgrade" to anything else, and if the answer is no then there's something wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ManwithSupra Posted April 22, 2008 Share Posted April 22, 2008 Remember braking is also down to how much traction you have ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wez Posted April 22, 2008 Share Posted April 22, 2008 UK spec brakes are one of the best on the market. Dont be fooled into thinking that bigger brakes will stop you any quicker, the larger brakes simply allow for more heat dissipation and therefore are better at repeated stops and suffer less brake fade. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SUPRASUZUKI Posted April 22, 2008 Share Posted April 22, 2008 I've just returned from a visit to the 'Ring. Before going I fitted new stock UK discs, callipers & pads, Goodridge lines, 5.1 fluid and some cooling ducting. 1100 miles, mainly 3 figure Autobahn speeds there and back (+ 5 laps). No issues (appart from loads of dust!). I agree with Thorin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thorin Posted April 22, 2008 Share Posted April 22, 2008 I agree with Thorin. If everyone did the forum World would be a better place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paul mac Posted April 22, 2008 Share Posted April 22, 2008 If everyone did the forum World would be a better place. as already mentioned tyres make a big difference i recently went from clapped out 235 Toyos to 245 Potenzas on the front and the difference (grip) is noticable, the condition of your suspension will also have a bearing on how quick you stop as well, with the above a good condition UK setup should be a match for anything on the road Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bolarbag Posted April 22, 2008 Share Posted April 22, 2008 I dont get all these opinions on UK brakes being a match for anything on the road...why? People continually raise the argument that if you can lock up the UK brakes then why upgrade, isnt the factor, the time taken to lock up the brakes? You will stop in a shorter distance with an adequate bigger brake upgrade fact - its been tested many of times, I can see the argument there is no need to stop in that extra few feet less for a daily driver/street car, but to those who would like to track the car it would matter, and many of you will know that the UK's do fade more easily than the BBK's out there Please add any comments to my next thread as I've been researching this for a while Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scooter Posted April 22, 2008 Share Posted April 22, 2008 Hi, cw fast road pads you need his Race spec ones IMO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Posted April 22, 2008 Share Posted April 22, 2008 The time taken to lock up the wheels is the time it takes you to push hard enough on the pedal is it not? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bolarbag Posted April 22, 2008 Share Posted April 22, 2008 The time taken to lock up the wheels is the time it takes you to push hard enough on the pedal is it not? So braking force is defined by the amount of force the driver can exert on the peddle....why dont we all just stick to j-specs then and start going to the gym? No I dont think so, I'm not an expert on brakes by any means, in fact its something I've spent least time on speccing but from what I've seen UK's are fine for a bpu car, but not up to the job on a Single - theres nothing wrong with that, Toyota never intended the car to be 500bhp+ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thorin Posted April 22, 2008 Share Posted April 22, 2008 from what I've seen UK's are fine for a bpu car, but not up to the job on a Single I'd like to know where you've seen this. One of many threads on the subject. Of particular note is the post by CW on that first page. http://www.mkivsupra.net/vbb/showthread.php?t=137208 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris and Alana Posted April 22, 2008 Share Posted April 22, 2008 From what I have read on this forum over the time I have been here is that any size brake from j-spec 2 pots to D2 8pots for example will stop you in the same distance, it's just that the larger the brake's the more times you can perform the same stop without fade. For example, if you were doing 150leptons with j-specs and the same with 8 pots you would stop in the same distance but then accelerate to 150 again and perform the same stop over and over than the larger brakes will perform much better because they can resist fade much more by being able to desperse the heat (due to their size) so say after 10 runs the 8pots might still be going well but the j-specs will be jelly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Posted April 22, 2008 Share Posted April 22, 2008 So braking force is defined by the amount of force the driver can exert on the peddle....why dont we all just stick to j-specs then and start going to the gym? No I dont think so, I'm not an expert on brakes by any means, in fact its something I've spent least time on speccing but from what I've seen UK's are fine for a bpu car, but not up to the job on a Single - theres nothing wrong with that, Toyota never intended the car to be 500bhp+ No, i didn't say that. I said with UK brakes, that are good enough to lock up the wheels, the time taken to lock them up depends on how fast you can put enough pressure onto the brakes to lock them. You are getting mixed into multiple arguments here. If the ABS kicks in or you can skid the car instantly at almost any speed then the brakes are good enough. If your doing lots of braking ie on a track then you would need to upgrade them for heat dissipation to prevent brake fade. Its 2 completely different things you are confusing in one sentence. Time and force. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dnk Posted April 22, 2008 Share Posted April 22, 2008 I have uk brakes with stock discs and pads with braided lines and im very happy how the car stops. Have you done a fluid change ? seeing as youve got braided lines i guess you have, what discs have you got o/e uk spec ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
supratoy Posted April 22, 2008 Author Share Posted April 22, 2008 Thanks for all the replys. When I was getting new brakes on my old car I had looked into the advantages and the points of having bigger brake etc and looked at a thread CW posted about bias and small brakes are just as good but they fade quicker etc So I have done some research on brakes, am no speciallist but in real life things change a little imo. Ok so the bigger brakes dont stop quicker, but the bite gives you a much greater pedal feel of what is happening and that gives me more confidence in the brakes which means later braking or just more presise braking times if you know what I mean. This is just what I have found with my own experience( which is not much by the way) I will be taking the car on track after some problem free motoring(fingers crossed) but at the moment I wanted to know how people felt with the Uk brakes but there obviously highly rated. I do think the brakes are ok but I just want more feedback and feel from them thats why I ask would changing the pads help enough or would it have to be the bbk. I had full stop techs on my old car and they were good and it could be argued that they probably didn't stop any faster than the oem ones until alot of hard braking were the old ones would have just melted on track and failed but the initial bite and feel you got from them let you brake later and felt like you were stopping quicker and gave much more confidence in braking on the track or even just road driving. please correct anything that sound wrong or stupid. Anymore feedback on the brakes issue is appricated. thanks p.s yeah I have oem disc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Posted April 22, 2008 Share Posted April 22, 2008 Could it possibly be incompatible discs? Are they OEM? I had a problem a few years ago where the pads i got weren't compatible with the discs and they created very little friction, well for brakes anyway, scared me a little till i got it sorted out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matt k Posted April 22, 2008 Share Posted April 22, 2008 I pulled up much quicker than a STI UK 300 and i must be giving up 200kg. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest yoshi_v300 Posted April 22, 2008 Share Posted April 22, 2008 I run 2-pot calipers on my 2JZ-GTE Aristo but can outbrake much lighter cars...why? Project Mu SCR-Pro discs + 777 Project Mu racing pads. Video of me racing my Aristo at Le Mans and outbraking the Lotus. For road use I use the combo pad from Project Mu which is track + road and starts heating up at 50C. The Project mu stuff is pricey but I have no issues with it on road or braking on circuit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kslb Posted April 22, 2008 Share Posted April 22, 2008 from what I've seen UK's are fine for a bpu car, but not up to the job on a Single - theres nothing wrong with that, Toyota never intended the car to be 500bhp+ I have UK calipers with 3G discs, endless pads and braided lines and the braking feels excellent on my single. I have more confidence in this brake setup than any I have had before so I would disagree with this statement. Brakes is something I am fussy about as well, as we all should be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bolarbag Posted April 22, 2008 Share Posted April 22, 2008 but from what I've seen UK's are fine for a bpu car, but not up to the job on a Single got kicked off earlier:- OK the correct statement should have been, but from what I've seen UK's are fine for a bpu car, but not up to the job on a Single - unless your Ronnie Coleman Track driving is all about smooth actions, and quick reactions, I dont fancy stamping on the peddle everytime I get to a corner, if you were doing 150leptons with j-specs and the same with 8 pots you would stop in the same distance Well why the upgrade from J-spec to UK spec at BPU, unless you go on a track, personally I cant see the physics as a bigger surface area is creating more frictional area upon the discs with the 8pots - less direct force on the disc and better heat transfer. If the force on the disc is almost directly proportional to the force that you put through the pedal, then what happens if you stamp on the pedal with the BBK conversion? Wouldnt you lock up quicker? I'd rather have heat dissipated across the disc from point of impact Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Posted April 22, 2008 Share Posted April 22, 2008 If the force on the disc is almost directly proportional to the force that you put through the pedal, then what happens if you stamp on the pedal with the BBK conversion? Wouldnt you lock up quicker? No because the amount of braking force required to make the wheels lock up is much less than the amount of braking force that can be applied to the better discs. Say the frictional force required to stop the wheels from turning at 150mph is 500 (just a number plucked out of the sky). Stamping on Jspec brakes creates 600 and stamping on the BBK creates 800 therefor the Jspec brakes are just as good at stopping the car in that situation with those tyres. This of course is a theoretical example but its how i understand it. Now, if you were to add extremely grippy tyres, or make the rolling radius of the tyre bigger, it would make sense to upgrade the brakes as the amount of force required to get to the limit of traction would be greater. Also, as the discs are much bigger the heat is dissipated better (as explained previous) meaning you can perform these stops over and over (to a certain degree) without melting the brakes. I'd rather have heat dissipated across the disc from point of impact So would most people, if it was necessary. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dnk Posted April 22, 2008 Share Posted April 22, 2008 No because the amount of braking force required to make the wheels lock up is much less than the amount of braking force that can be applied to the better discs. Say the frictional force required to stop the wheels from turning at 150mph is 500 (just a number plucked out of the sky). Stamping on Jspec brakes creates 600 and stamping on the BBK creates 800 therefor the Jspec brakes are just as good at stopping the car in that situation with those tyres. This of course is a theoretical example but its how i understand it. Now, if you were to add extremely grippy tyres, or make the rolling radius of the tyre bigger, it would make sense to upgrade the brakes as the amount of force required to get to the limit of traction would be greater. Also, as the discs are much bigger the heat is dissipated better (as explained previous) meaning you can perform these stops over and over (to a certain degree) without melting the brakes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tricky-Ricky Posted April 22, 2008 Share Posted April 22, 2008 Good braking doesn't just depend on brake size/friction material, its also down the suspension and geometry, along with tyres, however larger disc's and callipers do apply more friction force, all things being equal, but as i said there is a lot more to it, thats why you sometimes wonder why that 15 year old lotus carton has just out braked you;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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