e-manage vs Soarer

[Hermit]

Tried it, comparing the logs it's hard to spot the difference at idle. There's a clear difference at full boost but not a massive one.

 

On both of these logs, there's still the restrictive t-piece affecting the stock sensor.

 

Sensors fed from the damper (stock position):

 

and from the port that's normally used for the heater valve:

 

Thing is, even with the greddy sensor fed from the damper, there's about 1 psi of fluctuation around about 15.6 psi - is that normal?

[Tricky-Ricky]

Its a very slight difference, but yes yours does seem a bit more of a noisy signal, could be electrical? another thing i am noticing is that both your Greddy and std pressure signal seem to pretty much match up as far as scale is concerned, looking at some of mine the std pressure signal is way higher than the greddy:blink: its also the same on another log i have from somebody else's Supra, it would be interesting if somebody could post up there logs, if the have both std and greddy PS lodged, I'm now wondering if the Soarer has a different std PS??

[Hermit]

Its a very slight difference, but yes yours does seem a bit more of a noisy signal, could be electrical?

Could be some electrical noise, although I don't see any on other signals (e.g. water/intake temps) so I don't seem to have a problem with noise generally (like with a bad ground or something).

Anyway good to know that's fairly similar

another thing i am noticing is that both your Greddy and std pressure signal seem to pretty much match up as far as scale is concerned, looking at some of mine the std pressure signal is way higher than the greddy:blink: its also the same on another log i have from somebody else's Supra, it would be interesting if somebody could post up there logs, if the have both std and greddy PS lodged, I'm now wondering if the Soarer has a different std PS??

So long as the emanage is setup correctly, 'Pressure Sensor PSI' should roughly match 'GReddy Pressure Sensor PSI 1'. 'Airflow Input(v)' is higher because it shows volts.

 

For both 1JZ-GTE and 2JZ-GTE (non-vvti), the emanage vehicle setup shows the airflow meter type as 'TY_PR-1'.

[Tricky-Ricky]

I agree, but mine doesn't, and the higher the pressure the bigger the discrepancy gets, i was beginning to think one of my sensors was faulty, but looking at someones else's log it seems to be the same, strange, more testing required;) never really used or took much notice of the EMU logs as i map using the Innovate logs, and i don't log the std PS, only the greddy one + the inbuilt one for reference.

[Ryan.G]

Saw this same problem last night on a EMU. It is very worrying how unstable it is.

 

Also where in oxford are you. Im in Woodstock

 

Ryan

[Hermit]

Saw this same problem last night on a EMU. It is very worrying how unstable it is.

 

Also where in oxford are you. Im in Woodstock

 

Ryan

Well at least I'm not the only one! Do you think it could just be that some stock sensors behave better than others above 1 bar?

 

It might be a fairly common problem, but I haven't found much when searching for similar cases. Although I'm not sure how many people would notice - an FCD almost completely hides the problem, reducing airflow with a SAFC or similar would pass the signal to the ecu but it might cope ok (it would only have to average about 80 to 100 ms worth to get a smooth signal), and many emanage users have the greddy sensor.

 

I'm in north Oxford - I'd be surprised if we hadn't passed by each other on that road before now

[Ian C]

Lordy lordy. First off lets clear up some basic clangers so far:

1ms = one millisecond = 1/1000th of a second or 0.001. 1000ms = one second.

A 20ms logging rate is one sample every 20*0.001 or 0.02 of a second, that's one twentieth not one fifth of a second. 20ms is a good speed for a datalog.

 

"Real time" viewing is when you watch the numbers, it's fairly useless for anything other than keeping an eye on values during testing.

 

Regarding the stock MAP sensor - The stock sensor is actually quite linear and capable on the Supra, right up to 1.2bar. It will read another 0.05bar but it gets erratic at that point (I'm sure I've typed this in on more than one previous occasion). I once went through the tedious task of going through all my datalogs and getting the pressure sensor reading vs the voltage reading, and thus drawing up one master table of volts-to-pressure of the stock MAP sensor. I have average voltage values for every 0.01kg/cm2 increment so it's as accurate as anyone is ever going to need. (kg/cm2 can be considered the same as Bar for our uses)

 

Now, regarding the assertation that the dampener doesn't have any effect, I've created and uploaded some graphs. The first two are a grab of my car at idle with (1st) and without (2nd) the dampener in place - note the more noisy effects. It is emphasised if you zoom out, see the 3rd and 4th images.

 

Still not convinced? Well the 5th and 6th graphs are from datalogs of my car on boost - the first is undamped, the second is damped. I reiterate that "the fluctuations get much worse the faster the engine is running and the more boost you are running" as hopefully has now been hammered home Yes, the signal really is that bad on boost, a fluctuation of up to 0.4bar.

 

Yes the Greddy sensor output is smoother. I think that is because the signal is smoother somewhat by the EMU before it is logged/displayed, because it "knows" the sensor and can deal with its predictable output - just like boost controllers do only to a much lesser extent. Stick on something it has no idea about though, like a.n.other 0-5v output, e.g. your stock MAP sensor, and all it can do it report what it sees every sample interval.

 

So I'd say that as long as your stock sensor isn't up and down like in the undampened images then it is working normally - these sensors aren't steady state devices by any stretch, not like temperature sensors. The air in the plenum is being knocked around bigtime, hundreds of times a second.

 

-Ian

[Hermit]

Thanks for digging out those pics, now I know exactly what the signal should look like. Pretty much what I thought actually, but it clears up a couple of things I wasn't entirely sure about.

 

I'm coming to the conclusion that my stock sensor is duff. Trying the undamped point on mine showed a difference, so my damper appears to be working (hard to see how it could go wrong anyway, but I didn't want to just assume it was working).

[Tricky-Ricky]

Fist off if you select the 100ms scale you will notice that the log map itself is marked in one second numerals with 10x100ms increments, which is what I'm referring to, i find this scale more useful for seeing whats happening, and that is what i wrongly refereed to as real time.

As for the EMU logs, I'm not entirely sure i trust them 100% they are certainly quite different to the tandem logs taken with my Innovate LM-1 LMA-3 set up even though they are calibrated the same, and there is no damping/smoothing applied, so as long as the adjustments i make to the EMU show up as intended in the Innovate logs and the AFRs are correct, i don't think I'll worry to much.

[Yakky]

Excellent thread - one the best read here.

 

Ian - "And yes, the duration can get confused when you are running 100% duty"

 

100% duty makes Ultimate go 100% regardless of offsets in tables. Your quote above is spot on - is this what you meant? thank you for all input to this valuable thread.