michael Posted April 8, 2008 Share Posted April 8, 2008 http://torchrelay.beijing2008.cn/en/journey/map/ Apparently the torch (or to be more specific "a guarded flame") travels ~85,000 miles around the world before the games start, it does this using various modes of transport including it's own Air China jet and ~20 vehicles provided in each relay city. There were no torch relays in ancient Games, the Nazis decided it was a good idea in 1936. Seems a bit wrong to be wasting all this energy at a time when "green" is so important to the world don't you think? Further reading: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/7330949.stm http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/magazine/7327079.stm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grahamc Posted April 8, 2008 Share Posted April 8, 2008 surely "open fire" on a plan is a health and safety risk??!!?! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michael Posted April 8, 2008 Author Share Posted April 8, 2008 surely "open fire" on a plan is a health and safety risk??!!?! This is the big con really - the "torch" doesn't go on the plane, the "flame" does in a lantern so there is no exposed naked flame. They cheat and it's silly, they should just light the one in the statium with the sun and be done with it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RiceRocket Posted April 8, 2008 Share Posted April 8, 2008 http://torchrelay.beijing2008.cn/en/journey/map/ Seems a bit wrong to be wasting all this energy at a time when "green" is so important to the world don't you think? Plus the security costs and extra due to the pro-Tibet protestors. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grahamc Posted April 8, 2008 Share Posted April 8, 2008 This is the big con really - the "torch" doesn't go on the plane, the "flame" does in a lantern so there is no exposed naked flame. They cheat and it's silly, they should just light the one in the statium with the sun and be done with it. Have to agree... How many starving children could they feed with the money they have just wasted! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grahamc Posted April 8, 2008 Share Posted April 8, 2008 Plus the security costs and extra due to the pro-Tibet protestors. They should just use water balloons, lots of them, that would put it put out.... or annoy them Would love to have seen them succeed Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michael Posted April 8, 2008 Author Share Posted April 8, 2008 Would love to have seen them succeed Apparently they got the torch out 3 times in Paris but of course the "flame" was still lit in it's secure little area surrounded by guards etc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grahamc Posted April 8, 2008 Share Posted April 8, 2008 Apparently they got the torch out 3 times in Paris but of course the "flame" was still lit in it's secure little area surrounded by guards etc useless french police... unless they have better things to do with their time Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AJI Posted April 8, 2008 Share Posted April 8, 2008 well it is supposed to be a symbollic thing.... and is a good advert for the forthcoming games. The games themselves generate money which go to good causes... so the effort in advertising the olympics with the flame travel is a worthwhile thing IMO. But these stupid pro-tibet people trying to create a political voice through a sporting event is bang out of order. I guess when the London flame goes around the world in 2012 there will be pro-northern ireland and pro-scottish devolution protestors? Only joking of course... but similar principal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gaz1 Posted April 8, 2008 Share Posted April 8, 2008 well it is supposed to be a symbollic thing.... and is a good advert for the forthcoming games. The games themselves generate money which go to good causes... so the effort in advertising the olympics with the flame travel is a worthwhile thing IMO. But these stupid pro-tibet people trying to create a political voice through a sporting event is bang out of order. I guess when the London flame goes around the world in 2012 there will be pro-northern ireland and pro-scottish devolution protestors? Only joking of course... but similar principal. if we have somewhere to host it:rolleyes: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CJ Posted April 8, 2008 Share Posted April 8, 2008 well it is supposed to be a symbollic thing.... and is a good advert for the forthcoming games. The games themselves generate money which go to good causes... so the effort in advertising the olympics with the flame travel is a worthwhile thing IMO. But these stupid pro-tibet people trying to create a political voice through a sporting event is bang out of order. I guess when the London flame goes around the world in 2012 there will be pro-northern ireland and pro-scottish devolution protestors? Only joking of course... but similar principal. I am not too sure how symbolic the flame is when you consider it was started as a Nazi propaganda tool and as such has nothing to do with the history of the Olympics. I would also question your assertion that the games generate money for good causes. Where ia the evidence of this? And judging by the huge debt the Athens games generated, i doubt there was even small change left for "good causes". And of course those silly Tibetans are out of order. I mean to say, surely any civilised person would realise that the absolutely shocking human rights history of china should be completely ignored now that they have the Olympics. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ewen Posted April 8, 2008 Share Posted April 8, 2008 Wife and I were in London at the weekend. We came out of the Aquarium and walked up onto Westminster Bridge just as the torch bearer and the chaos were coming over it. I have to say that the Chinese 'body guards' surrounding the torch bearer took their job extremely seriously. Complete and utter to**ers. From where we were standing (after being pushed there) the whole thing was rather seedy and pointless. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pot Posted April 8, 2008 Share Posted April 8, 2008 Apparently they got the torch out 3 times in Paris but of course the "flame" was still lit in it's secure little area surrounded by guards etc I thought it was the officials who actually put the torch out, instead of the protestors... Sadly, now I' can't find the story on the BBC that I'd read... But yes, you're right about the flame still being lit in lanterns, that's how they take it on planes, and relight the torch if it does get put out... One example of it is in an 197? Olympics when the torch went out, and was relit by someone with a fag lighter... It was blown out and relit from the 'Proper Flame'... Wooo... It's like some sort of new global flame cult overtaking us... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michael Posted April 8, 2008 Author Share Posted April 8, 2008 I thought it was the officials who actually put the torch out, instead of the protestors... Sadly, now I' can't find the story on the BBC that I'd read... I think you may be right but I would imagine that "flame out" is considered a win no matter who does the deed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thorin Posted April 8, 2008 Share Posted April 8, 2008 I would also question your assertion that the games generate money for good causes. Where ia the evidence of this? And judging by the huge debt the Athens games generated, i doubt there was even small change left for "good causes". I agree, I even read an article recently criticising the organisers of the 2012 Olympics. When we won there was a huge speech about how it would generate many jobs and income for businesses in the whole of the UK.... yet all the contracts have been given to firms in London and the south east. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michael Posted April 8, 2008 Author Share Posted April 8, 2008 ....there was a huge speech about how it would generate many jobs and income for businesses in the whole of the UK.... yet all the contracts have been given to firms in London and the south east. That is the whole of the UK silly! The rest is just fields. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thorin Posted April 8, 2008 Share Posted April 8, 2008 That is the whole of the UK silly! The rest is just fields. It used to be, when I were a lad. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AJI Posted April 9, 2008 Share Posted April 9, 2008 I am not too sure how symbolic the flame is when you consider it was started as a Nazi propaganda tool and as such has nothing to do with the history of the Olympics. I would also question your assertion that the games generate money for good causes. Where ia the evidence of this? And judging by the huge debt the Athens games generated, i doubt there was even small change left for "good causes". And of course those silly Tibetans are out of order. I mean to say, surely any civilised person would realise that the absolutely shocking human rights history of china should be completely ignored now that they have the Olympics. Symbolic in the sense that it advertises the games around the world and shows that each country atheletes are able to be part of the 'delivery' of the games. And yes if you think how much money is generated through building contracts that then provide jobs etc.... and also the businesses and atheletes involved with training youngsters and giving them a direction in life. Many governments provide money to put into schools around the world in hope they find the next world champion athelete for their country. And then out of this there are numerous athletic charity events that come out of the populatiry of the sports which the games generates. Politics should not rule sport IMO.... leave that to the over paid politicians. And I also know that the west blows many stories way out of proportion when it comes to China and Tibet. OK...they do not have the same civil rights that we do here in England... where by murderers and criminals are let out with just a telling off and are free to re-offend and then claim millions in compensation... but the situation between China's rule over Tibet is similar to England's rule over N-Ireland (in terms of political history)... we are therefore in the same boat. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AJI Posted April 10, 2008 Share Posted April 10, 2008 Just been watching some coverage of the torch in America. They have made it into a bit of a 'hush hush' type of affair. I was wondering how many people were also aware that the US (Nato) has a number of bases in Tibet.... it is of strategic importance due to the proximity of Russia. The situation between China, Tibet and the West is a lot more complicated than first meets the eye. China is a fast developing country.... the major cities centres are even more modern than most western cities. China is also soon going to be a leading world power (well it is already), which puts the US under pressure and its view of 'world control'. So there are many many behind the scenes politics that are going on..... the west chooses to concentrate on certain items of the Tibet-China relationship..... and this is putting western pressure onto China to 'free' Tibet. What if the US turned round and said to England.. you must free N-Ireland ? (Well I gues they might do if they had Nato bases there) It is just a shame that the olympics are being damaged in this way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CJ Posted April 10, 2008 Share Posted April 10, 2008 Do you seriously believe that the only human rights issue china has is with the Tibetan monks? If so, I would suggest you read up more before you post up defending them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CJ Posted April 10, 2008 Share Posted April 10, 2008 Here is a very small example of what is going on. Note that it is nothing to do with Tibet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AJI Posted April 10, 2008 Share Posted April 10, 2008 I do not doubt that China has a record of human right issues.... they also have a history of animal right issues also. Much like we do here in England.... we used to hang people and also women did not have the vote until just a few decades ago. We also still shoot animals and get dogs to chase and kill them for fun. We had a slave trade and many other human rights issues that we [as a country history] can hang our head in shame about. But all this media and western pressure ... I am just wanting to point out that it is not as black and white as it all seems. China is developing still in many areas of its civilisation, but because it is a powerful country the west is trying to use its might to get China to a western way of thinking. Just give them time and it will happen..... but forcing a country to do something just ends up being like another Iraq. All this is just my own opinion by the way. I have a number of Chinese friends, both in China and some that have moved to England.. and I am able to get both sides of the story. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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