Retrospective Changes to Road Tax in the Budget

[Soop Dogg]

In the budget earlier this month, the government made changes retrospectively to the groupings for vehicle excise duty for some cars.

 

This might not really affect Supras unless you have one 'first registered' after 1 March 2001. How that will affect a 1993 car that's just arrived here, I'm not sure. However, as the Supra is not getting any younger, many of us will be looking for something to replace it with (some of us already have done) - and that's not going to be a Yaris!

 

Anyway, many cars that were in the same group as the Supra, Group F have been moved into the new group M.

 

At the moment, a group F car (registered after 01/03/2001) will cost you £210 for 12 months road tax.

 

Next year the same car will be in group M and cost £440 for 12 months road tax! The year after, it will go up to £455.

 

So once again, our government is ripping us off under the guise of being 'green'. If they really wanted to do something about the environment, they'd start with corporations who spew more into the atmosphere than we ever could.

 

Anyway, there's a petition to try and get them to reverse the retrospective element to all of this. Not that they'll ever listen, but if we don't say anything, then we have no place complaining. Who's to say they won't introduce more retrospective changes for any car on the road regardless of how old it is that has higher emissions than a blade of grass?

 

LINK

[Ark]

Hmm, and apparently the scientists now all agree that global warming is bollox:

 

http://www.heartland.org/Article.cfm?artId=22866

 

http://www.abd.org.uk/news.htm

[Multics]

 

Anyway, many cars that were in the same group as the Supra, Group F have been moved into the new group M.

 

At the moment, a group F car will cost you £210 for 12 months road tax.

 

Next year the same car will be in group M and cost £440 for 12 months road tax! The year after, it will go up to £455.

 

 

Are you saying that next year Supra's will be taxed at £440 for 12 months?

[Pete]

Simple - if you don't like it, then don't pay it. If everyone refused to pay it then they wouldn't have much choice would they?

Hang on...first registered after 2001? I wonder if this affects my Tiger. Put it this way, if it does - then that's me not paying anymore road tax for it. F**k 'em.

[Soop Dogg]

Are you saying that next year Supra's will be taxed at £440 for 12 months?

 

Edited to clarify that it's the date of registration that's the important bit.

 

In the past, they've made these type of changes for new vehicles. This time they've applied it to vehicles that people may have had for 7 years already and who now will be wondering whether or not it's worth keeping their cars.

[Multics]

Thanks for the clarification phew!

[Gaz6002]

Simple - if you don't like it, then don't pay it. If everyone refused to pay it then they wouldn't have much choice would they?

Hang on...first registered after 2001? I wonder if this affects my Tiger. Put it this way, if it does - then that's me not paying anymore road tax for it. F**k 'em.

 

In all seriousness I wonder how many people would go for making a stand like this? I imagine pretty much everyone in the performance car world will be affected in some way.

[tbourner]

I thought it was only £400+ on the first year of tax? ie: If you've bought a new car. Even if you registered your Supra after 2001 it would only be £220 or something, because it's not it's first years tax?

[imi]

our government is ripping us off under the guise of being 'green'.

 

Exactly...

 

Even the Mayor of London has decided to go down this route; they quickly realised the congestion charge didnt really work.....£8 is probably the max that people would tolerate; and we see it just as an additional tax. Changing it to a pollution tax in the effort to try and look green changes the ballgame completely. He can set the agenda, set the price and it will go through.

[AndyT]

The little fact that the fauna takes in the CO2 and gives out our O2 is often overlooked.

'Course global deforestation may make a difference there.

 

So stop the deforestation and we have enough fauna to process CO2 and we don't need further "Green Tax". Government goes bust.

[Pete]

In all seriousness I wonder how many people would go for making a stand like this? I imagine pretty much everyone in the performance car world will be affected in some way.

In all seriousness I will not pay £400 odd quid to tax the Tiger which travels about 1000 miles a year.

[Sandy-m2]

I sent this to a few people at work and had this response from one...

 

It’s lip service to public opinion, probably less than lip service because there’s often no acknowledgement of the petition or the fact that people have responded. There have been a couple of notable examples of responses, from Tony Blair to everyone who signed the petition regarding road charging, for example, but they’re largely used to give the impression that someone’s listening without actually having to bother listening.

 

The people who use the petitions to try and get TV characters voted into power or to get old sweets reintroduced are probably most to blame for the diminished real-world effect of the PM’s petitions process.

Next time someone sends you a comedy petition, don’t sign it. Try and restore some common sense to the process.

 

With respect to the issue at hand, I simply don’t agree that it’s a valid argument.

With a few notable, and highly publicized, exceptions (the automatic Renault Espace), the new legislation will make it more expensive to have and run some cars that have an unreasonably high social footprint and it’s probably right that people should be put off choosing to drive these cars.

Please note that we all drive, by and large, the car that we choose to drive.

 

When it’s no longer considered the norm to buy a high performance light truck to carry your wife and children around, the taxation will be revised and those who genuinely need to run such vehicles, if there’s actually anyone who ‘needs’ a four litre petrol Jeep, will be able to do so.

It does create a model where those with oodles of cash can drive what they want, but that’s always going to be the case. Nobody ‘needs’ a Bentley Conti GT but there are people who can afford much, much more than it currently costs to own and run one and it’s probably correct that they pay EVEN MORE than the proposals. If that means that certain cars are unfortunate enough to be similarly categorized, those owners will have to take it on the chin for the public good. The value of certain cars within London has already nosedived because of the Congestion Charge but even the most vociferous opponent of that will admit that the roads are less busy and the air quality has improved.

 

The only reasonable argument I can see to running an ageing, high performance car with pretty poor fuel consumption and a large footprint on congested roads is that there’s a high environmental impact when it’s scrapped and by keeping it running you’re avoiding that.

Rejecting the current replacement cycle on cars (every few years) is probably more useful than reducing plastic bag use and using energy saving bulbs. Whether or not it offsets a fuel consumption of

[Gaz6002]

Ooooh we've gone from "carbon footprint" to "social footprint". Is that affirmation that the global warming tree-hugging culture is out of fashion now? Now people who own fast older cars are seen in the same light as yobs throwing bricks at fire engines? That's how I read that comment.

[dannypunto]

this planet is way way way more complex than our brains could eva understand, its been around for millions of year and always repairs itself. global warning is bollocks

 

ps, i aint no sceintist and cant back my opion up

[Wez]

What happens if you convert your car to run on E85

[Kopite]

What happens if you convert your car to run on E85

 

 

The thing that bugs me about road taxing etc is that wasn't it meant to just be a charge to look after the roads, not pollution etc? Even if it has moved onto that, isn't it something daft like 3% of the big global warming debate is down to the whole world's cars and that most of it is actually caused by deforestation and industry? So why chuck so much on cars instead of making countries sign that Koyoto Agreement etc?

[colsoop]

I mentioned this whole "green" taxation a few months back !

 

Cars are the easy bit they are slowly creeping in to taxing your home, the shopping bags now, next the bin tax.

Yet the government officials are still driving round in armour plated Jags and the like for the smallest of trips.

 

The unfair thing is that a lot of people who own these high performance cars will not be using them everyday for example my supra does no more than 4 k a year, for my main driving duties i have a car that does 50 mpg.

Therefore my "carbon bulls**t is quite low.

Compare that to a family who have a modest 2 litre car who do 30 k a year !

 

Perhaps they could offer a limited mileage scheme for taxation, although i don't know how thats going to work.

[AndrewOW]

The little fact that the fauna takes in the CO2 and gives out our O2 is often overlooked.

'Course global deforestation may make a difference there.

 

So stop the deforestation and we have enough fauna to process CO2 and we don't need further "Green Tax". Government goes bust.

 

 

I like the cut of your jib there, but just to clarify, I'm sure its flora, and not fauna that would do that job!

 

I can't imagine the fluffy bunnies and cute deer, in this lovely world of ours, breathing in all our nasty pollution and breathing out fresh air, to be honest

[Wez]

Perhaps they could offer a limited mileage scheme for taxation, although i don't know how thats going to work.

 

TBH fixed rate road tax is utter tosh, for people with more than one motor they have to pay the same for both cars, its crazy, you can only drive one at a time.

 

Maybe we should tax the person not the car, I know there may be grey areas like leaving a car parked on a public road etc.

[marbleapple]

 

With respect to the issue at hand, I simply don’t agree that it’s a valid argument.

 

With a few notable, and highly publicized, exceptions (the automatic Renault Espace), the new legislation will make it more expensive to have and run some cars that have an unreasonably high social footprint and it’s probably right that people should be put off choosing to drive these cars.

 

What makes me laugh when people talk about road taxing is the suggestion that if we drive healthier cars then the world would be a better place. It is a well known fact that even if we stopped all greenhouse gasses in the UK, the saving on a global scale would be swallowed up by developing countries such as India and China within a year.

 

It is like the whole argument about plastic carrier bags. People are claiming that we should top using them to reduce waste, however when you look at the facts they make up like 0.0001% of domestic waste (not counting commercial) and plastic carrier bags are a by product of oil refining, meaning that if we didn't use plastic carrier bags then we would have to burn the same amount of chemicals in the oil refining process as opposed to turning them into something useful.

 

My point: If the government wanted to improve pollution levels then it should be investing in projects in foreign developing countries which make the vast majority of the pollution instead of concentrating on areas of tiny contribution in the global scale of things.

[Scott]

I still think road tax should be governed by mileage also.

 

I do around 3-4k miles in my sup and another 6k in a 106. I am going to change the 106 for an oil burner simply to save a bit of cash going to and from work.

 

That means that to do 10k miles i have to pay twice as much money as a salesman doing 40k miles per year.

 

Shocking!

 

Scott =op

[Ark]

The plastic bag issue is just an example really, trying to make people think about it. Now I don't know what your local supermarket is like, but Winchester Tesco has a line of trees along the car park, and literally every tree is festooned with discarded plastic bags, and it's ugly.

 

I've just bought a bunch of collapsible plastic crates to bring my shopping home in - £1.99 each, won't rip the first time you look at them, and will protect the delicate foodstuffs. Bargain.

[Wez]

Has anyone actually tried to find out where the money goes from the Road Tax income?

[Big Red One]

i would like to know what how much road tax buses and lorries will be paying

[imi]

this planet is way way way more complex than our brains could eva understand, its been around for millions of year and always repairs itself. global warning is bollocks

 

ps, i aint no sceintist and cant back my opion up

 

you make the mistake again.....they arent trying to solve anything here.....its a great ploy to extract even more money from the motorists....this time with a green label to it .......