What Class are you?

[Tannhauser]

If we are a 'classless society', to me this implies that the background we are born into does not affect our later chances of 'success' in life. This would be a true meritocracy, where our position in life is only dictated by how hard we work and the opportunities we make for ourselves.

 

One way of assessing this is to use 'social mobility' indices, which measure what percentage of people break out of the bracket they were born into (e.g. earnings bracket). Will Hutton discusses this at length in his excellent book "The World We're In".

 

When that was written a few years back, out of the developed countries, the one with the worst social mobility was the USA. This is interesting, because the 'American Dream' of anybody being able to make it big just doesn't fit in with the evidence. If you're born poor there, you're more likely to end up poor than in virtually any other country. Europe had much better rates of social mobility and the UK lay somewhere between the two.

 

However, I'm sure I remember reading somewhere that the UK had recently sunk below the US in terms of social mobility. So, if in these enlightened times, there are any candidates for a class-based society,it's probably the US and the UK.

[Gerry]

Great (interesting) thread...

 

Makes me laugh when people pretend there's no such thing as class, just pretending it's not there doesn't make it go away.

 

It's a bit like pretending we (humans) are all one colour and that we treat everyone no matter what make they are the same - nice in fairly land

 

It's obvious that there are class differences in all cultures, the hard bit is defining them, perhaps the word "class" is wrong, but I can't think of another which is better.

 

I think class is about a number of things, and I'd put them in order of:

1, Education, or lack of.

2, How well we speak / accent.

3, Wealth, or lack of.

4, "Style" will come back to this one.

 

I think to be at the top end of the pile you need some of all of them, just having money is not enough etc.

 

I also know is that when I meet some of my big farmer customers who wear a tweed jacket and check shirt & tie, who drive a sports Range Rover and who are obviously better educated then I am (and don't have a Yorkshire twang) I feel that whatever class they are, it's not the same as mine.

[Kieran]

I'd say that drinking down the pub everyweek, not having gone to uni, and working in a manual job pretty much makes you working class.

 

That'll be me then. Thanks for clarifying that.

 

I voted How Cares because who really gives a toss? Why worry about where you fit in on some social ladder and not just get on with being happy with your own life?

[Scott]

I have read most of this and don't really have an opinion or care about what class i am in.

 

The longer you go through life the more people you will meet who will change your perceptions of things. There will be rich upperclass w*nkers who were born with a silver spoon up their ass and who don't have a clue about real life (most of the government). You will have your middle class who so want to be upperclass they try to act like them and "keep up with the jones'". You will also have your working/lower class folks who will be more knowledgeable and interesting than anyone in the "classes" above them.

 

There are no rules in this, there are only exceptions to what is perceived as the "rule".

 

I think billy connolly put it best. He explained about when he used to go home for a drink in the local he would always end up with the working class lads having a drink. They didn't care about money or talking about money whereas thats all the middle class talked about. He named them "wannabe toffs". He told of a story how one day they were sitting having a pint and one of these wannabe toffs came up and started up a conversation about "the price of property nowadays". He went on to say how much his house was worth and then turned to one of the locals and said "what do you reckon you would get if you sold your house?" The guy replied "probably about 6 months".

 

All i can take from that is..

 

The working class don't care, the rich don't care its only the wannabe's that care.

 

Scott =op

[colsoop]

Great (interesting) thread...

 

Makes me laugh when people pretend there's no such thing as class, just pretending it's not there doesn't make it go away.

 

It's a bit like pretending we (humans) are all one colour and that we treat everyone no matter what make they are the same - nice in fairly land

 

That was obviously aimed towards me, i don't pretend class doesn't exist as daily we are bombarded with it. I choose not to class people according to the rules or classess, everybody is equal to me.

If that makes me from fairy (?) land then so be it.

[Gerry]

That was obviously aimed towards me, i don't pretend class doesn't exist as daily we are bombarded with it. I choose not to class people according to the rules or classess, everybody is equal to me.

If that makes me from fairy (?) land then so be it.

 

Would never call you a "Fairy" (you might be bigger than me) it was aimed at people who think we live in an completely equal world when sadly we don't.

 

I just don't belive you really feel equal to both your bank managers boss and also the chav who keys his car !

 

If you do, you are truly "OK" (as in the brilliant book "I'm OK, Your'e OK") and although I strive (only a bit) to be better, I still judge people by how they dress, how they talk etc etc...

[Carl_S]

well i had a good education, speak well when i can be ar**d to, live well but im in the army so im just the governments bi*ch

 

Did you go to uni?

 

If we are a 'classless society', to me this implies that the background we are born into does not affect our later chances of 'success' in life. This would be a true meritocracy, where our position in life is only dictated by how hard we work and the opportunities we make for ourselves.

 

One way of assessing this is to use 'social mobility' indices, which measure what percentage of people break out of the bracket they were born into (e.g. earnings bracket). Will Hutton discusses this at length in his excellent book "The World We're In".

 

When that was written a few years back, out of the developed countries, the one with the worst social mobility was the USA. This is interesting, because the 'American Dream' of anybody being able to make it big just doesn't fit in with the evidence. If you're born poor there, you're more likely to end up poor than in virtually any other country. Europe had much better rates of social mobility and the UK lay somewhere between the two.

 

However, I'm sure I remember reading somewhere that the UK had recently sunk below the US in terms of social mobility. So, if in these enlightened times, there are any candidates for a class-based society,it's probably the US and the UK.

 

Social mobility is interesting. Politicians seem to say that education is the only way out of and upwards to the next class. I'm not so sure. Education is very important. But to say its the only way out of your own class? And why should you leave your own class in the first place. Is chav class just another name for underclass, or is it a part of working class?!

 

 

Great (interesting) thread...

 

Makes me laugh when people pretend there's no such thing as class, just pretending it's not there doesn't make it go away.

 

It's a bit like pretending we (humans) are all one colour and that we treat everyone no matter what make they are the same - nice in fairly land

 

It's obvious that there are class differences in all cultures, the hard bit is defining them, perhaps the word "class" is wrong, but I can't think of another which is better.

 

I think class is about a number of things, and I'd put them in order of:

1, Education, or lack of.

2, How well we speak / accent.

3, Wealth, or lack of.

4, "Style" will come back to this one.

 

I think to be at the top end of the pile you need some of all of them, just having money is not enough etc.

 

I also know is that when I meet some of my big farmer customers who wear a tweed jacket and check shirt & tie, who drive a sports Range Rover and who are obviously better educated then I am (and don't have a Yorkshire twang) I feel that whatever class they are, it's not the same as mine.

 

 

Absolutely. Well

 

I reckon I have 1) education 2) Well spoken 3) Wealth 4) And Style.

 

I do shop at tesco's/ ASDA for clothes sometimes , I hope that doesnt preclude me from me being a middle class guy.

 

I have read most of this and don't really have an opinion or care about what class i am in.

 

The longer you go through life the more people you will meet who will change your perceptions of things. There will be rich upperclass w*nkers who were born with a silver spoon up their ass and who don't have a clue about real life (most of the government). You will have your middle class who so want to be upperclass they try to act like them and "keep up with the jones'". You will also have your working/lower class folks who will be more knowledgeable and interesting than anyone in the "classes" above them.

 

There are no rules in this, there are only exceptions to what is perceived as the "rule".

 

I think billy connolly put it best. He explained about when he used to go home for a drink in the local he would always end up with the working class lads having a drink. They didn't care about money or talking about money whereas thats all the middle class talked about. He named them "wannabe toffs". He told of a story how one day they were sitting having a pint and one of these wannabe toffs came up and started up a conversation about "the price of property nowadays". He went on to say how much his house was worth and then turned to one of the locals and said "what do you reckon you would get if you sold your house?" The guy replied "probably about 6 months".

 

All i can take from that is..

 

The working class don't care, the rich don't care its only the wannabe's that care.

 

Scott =op

 

 

I reckon middle classes can be interesting too, and you are being a tad harsh. Then again, there is probably some truth to that. Variety and life's struggles will be more prevalent in the working classes, and so build fuller and more interesting characters.

 

That was obviously aimed towards me, i don't pretend class doesn't exist as daily we are bombarded with it. I choose not to class people according to the rules or classess, everybody is equal to me.

If that makes me from fairy (?) land then so be it.

 

I dont think it was aimed at you at all. More to people that Dont even recognise it still exists and has no importance at all.

[Ewen]

I reckon I have 1) education 2) Well spoken 3) Wealth 4) And Style.

Where did you get 1) and 3) from ?

[Carl_S]

1) I got it from a non-redbrick uni in london (but my bro went to oxbridge) 3) You don't want to know (trust me on this)

 

Also is there such a think as a Black middle class, or Asian middle class in this country, or do you have to be white to be truely middle class. I would say that you can be any color. Including yellow.

[Ewen]

1) I got it from a non-redbrick uni in london (but my bro went to oxbridge) 3) You don't want to know (trust me on this)

Are your parents 'middle class' ? How about their parents ? Did they pay for your education, or did you through your mysterious self made wealth ?

BTW, "You don't want to know (trust me on this)" cheered me right up. Very funny.

[Kieran]

3) You don't want to know (trust me on this)

 

I do now! Gangster? Middle class male prostitute?:D

 

I would say that you can be any color. Including yellow.

 

What race is yellow? Except people from Springfield, obviously.

[Carl_S]

Are your parents 'middle class' ? How about their parents ? Did they pay for your education, or did you through your mysterious self made wealth ?

BTW, "You don't want to know (trust me on this)" cheered me right up. Very funny.

 

My parents are from sri-lanka originally, my mum is sri-lankan middle class, and my dad from a working class back ground. My dad payed partly for my education at public school.

 

I believe in being honest, but somethings you just dont mention on a public forum.

 

 

I do now! Gangster? Middle class male prostitute?:D

 

What race is yellow? Except people from Springfield, obviously.

 

LMFAO, kinda warm actually.

 

Black is Black, Brown is asian, Yellow is.... kinda obvious?!, whats the main one I missed? Think of bruce lee, manga, and drifting.

[Gazboy]

The poll clearly shows that Chavs aren't self aware.

 

Glad that cleared the matter up.

[DannyB]

Brap!

[Carl_S]

The poll clearly shows that Chavs aren't self aware.

 

Glad that cleared the matter up.

 

hahaha

[cossack]

i work, the wife works = working class

[Tannhauser]

Coincidentally, on Wednesday, there was a MORI poll in The Times* about class. They asked 1,054 adults (using a representative quota sample) about their views on class. I can't find it online, but here are a few snippets.

 

31% thought that the class system has become more rigid in the last ten years.

 

52% saw themselves as working class, 44% as middle class and only 4% as '?'

 

68% felt that there would never be a classless society in the UK (11% less than in 1991).35% thought it was easy to move between classes. 49% thought that 'the best people get to the top regardless of background'.

 

OK, I like this bit: "Who is more likely to engage in each of these activities, a working class person, a middle-class person, or an upper-class person?"

 

Top seven activities ascribed to the working classes (from the alternatives provided by the pollsters):

 

1. Taking the bus (62%)

2. Having an allotment (52%)

3. Eating in front of the TV (48%)

4. Watching Coronation Street (45%)

5. Go to football matches (42%)

6. Holiday in Spain (37%)

7. Eat peas with a knife (35%)

 

 

*The fact that I read this in The Times makes me middle-class at the very least.

 

Cliff =ob

[Scott]

Just to point out, the last option in the poll

 

"How cares?"

 

Educated?

 

Scott =op

[SupraAyf]

I always get confused by this class debate so I would love to see the various different factors that constitute the social tiers.

 

Someone got a list?

[Ewen]

I always get confused by this class debate so I would love to see the various different factors that constitute the social tiers.

Someone got a list?

I found this...

 

"The upper class

This is 1% of the British society and they own many properties and lands. They are often called aristocrats as well. This group can be divided into 2 sub-groups: The old upper class and new upper class. The old upper class are the people who inherited their wealth through generations and the new upper class are the people who made their money through hard work. The old and new mix, but old upper class tends to look down on new.

Some argues that these classes have more less disappeared, but others says they have changed form rather than disappeared. For example, rather than land owners they may now be senior executives.

 

 

The middle class

It is argued that majority people in UK fall into this category. Middle class covers wider areas of occupations, therefore, there are 3 distinctive class within this, they are: the old middle class, upper middle class, lower middle class. Middle class people usually have white-collared jobs.

The old middle class are self-employed people who own small businesses, local shops or farms. Most small businesses go out of business within a few year of establishment, however new businesses comes along all the time. One of the reasons for them to go out of business very quickly is that they find it difficult to compete with large companies.

 

The upper middle class are people who hold managerial or professional positions. They are mainly educated to high level. This group have a high knowledge and supply it to the employers; in return, they enjoy a high salary plus benefit packages. However, the changes in the last a few years in the world economy made these people's condition very unstable. After redundancies and instability, some of them now choosing to be self employed.

 

The lower middle class are skilled workers, such as teachers, nurses or office workers. The major difference between this class and other middle class is that they earn less income.

 

 

The working class

Working class people work mainly in blue-collared jobs. It can be divided into two sub-groups, the upper working class and lower working class.

The upper working class are skilled workers. Although some skilled workers are affected by the new technology, on the all these sector on high demand. They have secured jobs and paid quite well and the instability on the economy does not affect them as much as professional people.

 

The lower working class is partly skilled or unskilled occupations. They receive less income than the above group.

 

It is important to understand if working class people work part-time or full-time. As with part-time, they may not enjoy a secure job and a regular income, on the other hand full-time workers can enjoy a security and a better income.

 

 

The underclass

These people are mainly unemployed and underprivileged. Without any job or support, these people are the ones who tend to have serious health problems and at risk of having accidents"

 

Yippee, I'm upper middle class:rolleyes:

[flukey-lukey]

This is complete bull imo.

 

How much of an education do you have to have to be quilified for the 'I have an education group' ?

 

How much wealth do you have to have to be classed as wealthy?

 

I could say I'm wealthy and tell evryone on here that I'm in the upper class (I'm far from it for the record imo ) but who decides who is in what class? I just don't understand it.

 

Anyway, I'm

 

1) Educated (to a certain degree)

2) Well spoken when I want to be/need to be

3) Wealthy (mostly on payday )

4) Stylish... imo

 

I'm a honest working class Yorkshire lad and proud

[colsoop]

I found this...

 

The upper middle class are people who hold managerial or professional positions. They are mainly educated to high level. This group have a high knowledge and supply it to the employers; in return, they enjoy a high salary plus benefit packages. However, the changes in the last a few years in the world economy made these people's condition very unstable. After redundancies and instability, some of them now choosing to be self employed.

 

 

Yippee, I'm upper middle class:rolleyes:

 

So you have an unstable condition then

[Ewen]

It all comes back to how you earn your money. Education may be a part of it, as is background, accent etc, but the career you choose and your success therein seems to define your class.

Wayne Rooney retired and living off successful investments however, may not have been taken into account.

[Jake]

What is your degree in then, Carl?

 

I reckon I have 1) education 2) Well spoken 3) Wealth 4) And Style.

 

My dad payed partly for my education at public school.

He didn't get his monies worth. Perhaps he should have paid a little more.

[Gazboy]

How much of an education do you have to have to be quilified for the 'I have an education group' ?

 

How much wealth do you have to have to be classed as wealthy?

 

 

A good degree in a decent subject- a 3rd in "Victoria Beckham" from some naff uni/college doesn't cut it, a 1st in Law from Oxford has your feet well planted in 'educated'.

 

Wealth- hundred thousand in a current account and some serious money in savings/investments??? (not including equity in property)