Epic Posted March 21, 2008 Share Posted March 21, 2008 Last night at 12midnight after i finished work i picked my girlfriend up and then made my way back. goto a round about and the car in front was creeping around it at 5mph, so i went around insted and got past the last set of lights while they were still amber... about 500 yards later blue lights and get pulled over... i was in no particular hurry either and was just poodling along below the speed limit. so stoped, officer then asked me to get out etc, and said that i jumped the red light... He then said that "We saw you from a distance" (He was with another officer as well, a sargent) He took all my details etc, checks and so on. I told him that the light was amber and that my car had cleared the line fully before the light had fully turned red but he carryed on and said i would be getting 3 points and a £60 fine... i did not sign the form he did as i said i would be contesting What should i do? Its a sargent and a pc's word against mine and my girlfriend... Im 100% that the light was not red, and they even said themselves that they saw me from a distance... with the weather conditions and lighting i dont think he had the right to presume i had run the red Advice would be helpfull Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tomgeer Posted March 21, 2008 Share Posted March 21, 2008 I don't think you will win, but I would do the same, if you are certain you did nothing wrong you have to stand up for yourself. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Epic Posted March 21, 2008 Author Share Posted March 21, 2008 Yeh im certain, but i dont want it to get to court and end up paying twice as much if i havnt got a leg to stand on just coz i got stuck with the grumpy officer Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jazz1 Posted March 21, 2008 Share Posted March 21, 2008 you wont win unless you have evidence of camera`s? the judge is always on the laws side and you will end up paying double Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fri3ndly Posted March 21, 2008 Share Posted March 21, 2008 Epic, sign up to the following website and tell them what you wrote in here. They are a great help and are a purposely built forum dedicated to helping people battle points: http://www.pepipoo.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marbleapple Posted March 21, 2008 Share Posted March 21, 2008 you wont win unless you have evidence of camera`s? the judge is always on the laws side and you will end up paying double Not sure I agree with this to be honest. Class One etc would be able to advise better but if they saw from a distance, the weather wasn't great and the whole arguement relies on eye sight in the dark then the evidence against Epic isn't very strong. The offence and guilt needs to be proven beyond reasonable doubt / on balance of probabilities (can't remember which) remember. Whole thing rests on whether the Police cvar has a camera (which was active) and whether the CPS would be botehred to prosecute with such weak evidence. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seb Posted March 21, 2008 Share Posted March 21, 2008 Thing is, afaik you're meant to stop at an amber anyway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Konrad Posted March 21, 2008 Share Posted March 21, 2008 Thing is, afaik you're meant to stop at an amber anyway. Not if it means emergency breaking and can endanger yourself or other drivers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike_Mac Posted March 21, 2008 Share Posted March 21, 2008 Thing is, afaik you're meant to stop at an amber anyway. You have only committed an offence if your wheels cross the white junction line after the light has turned red. If you have already crossed it and the light turns red then you have not committed an offence. The reason the Highway Code advises you to stop on amber (if it is still practical to do so) is to ensure you don't run the risk of crossing on red. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ewen Posted March 21, 2008 Share Posted March 21, 2008 Its your call, but If it were me and I was sure I hadnt committed the offence, I'd contest it 100%. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sandy-m2 Posted March 21, 2008 Share Posted March 21, 2008 do they not need to have evedence, or is their word good enough? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
supra steveo Posted March 21, 2008 Share Posted March 21, 2008 if they said "We saw you from a distance" how can they be sure you jumped the light ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ian R Posted March 21, 2008 Share Posted March 21, 2008 Out of interest did the traffic signals have a camera on top of them ? If they did this would be your saving grace as you would have triggered it whilst going through the stop signal. It is the police's job to prove you are guilty. Out of interest did the officer caution you and read you your rights if he didn't it won't stand up in court Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colsoop Posted March 21, 2008 Share Posted March 21, 2008 Contest it, far too many people bow down and take it but only If you are sure it was amber. Make sure you write down word for word what the policeman said to you and also go back to the lights and as Ian says check if it has a camera on it. I think the evidence presented by the police is a bit weak unless they have camera proof of the offence but even then they were some distance behind which would not prove anything. perhaps move this to members Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bens747 Posted March 21, 2008 Share Posted March 21, 2008 I would say if you think your right then thats what a court is for .. they have to prove you jumped the red light. Say to the court ...... where is the evidence .... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simbasupra Posted March 21, 2008 Share Posted March 21, 2008 Just out of interest is there anything stopping the police officers from changing what they said if it goes to court? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bens747 Posted March 21, 2008 Share Posted March 21, 2008 Just out of interest was you read you ur rights and anything you say and all that ... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Epic Posted March 21, 2008 Author Share Posted March 21, 2008 Yeh i was cautioned and read my rights then he spoke with me I signed upto that site and there 50/50 about it. some say i shouldnt, some say i should... i feel abit stuck lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bens747 Posted March 21, 2008 Share Posted March 21, 2008 So anything you say maybe dah de dah in a court of law ... depends what you said if u know what i mean because what ever u did say they had to write down Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jazz1 Posted March 21, 2008 Share Posted March 21, 2008 you could hope there stories dont match, when i went to court although i lost i saved myself from getting 6-9 points and ended up with 3. The police officers had wrote my report a week later and there stories did not match one said the skid mark was 20 meters and the other said 30 foot, they really must of been dumb:d Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bens747 Posted March 21, 2008 Share Posted March 21, 2008 If I went to court I would say .... where is ur evidence I jumped a light and if they said because two police officers said you did ... I would say well ... two police officers could say I was driving my car naked when I went through ... don't mean I was ... but where is the proof get the camera photo .. there are enough cameras on the road to prove everything so where is it .... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bens747 Posted March 21, 2008 Share Posted March 21, 2008 A judge can't really say you did anything without evidence .. so if two police officers said this guy murdered someone .. what ... he goes to jail on the sayso of two officers without evidence ... i don't think so .. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike_Mac Posted March 21, 2008 Share Posted March 21, 2008 A judge can't really say you did anything without evidence .. so if two police officers said this guy murdered someone .. what ... he goes to jail on the sayso of two officers without evidence ... i don't think so .. Not quite true. With regards to speeding and other traffic offences a single copper cannot do someone unless he has another means of proving it (such as a speed camera). This changes if he has the 'expert' opinion of a collegue to back him up, as the opinion of two Police Officers can be used as evidence. In Epic's case I think his best defence is the distance these Coppers had to look over see him running the light. I'd go back and look at the view from their perspective and see how much of the Junction they could actually observe (and then factor in the fact it was dark). If there is any obscuration, or if you can't see the white line from where they were then he may be in with a chance to cast reasonable doubt on the Officer's allegations. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bens747 Posted March 21, 2008 Share Posted March 21, 2008 Do police get trained to be experts in judging whether from different angles whether someone has jumped a light ... what makes them an expert ... not knockin ur statement as I'm sure ur right but it does suck a bit Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marbleapple Posted March 21, 2008 Share Posted March 21, 2008 Not quite true. With regards to speeding and other traffic offences a single copper cannot do someone unless he has another means of proving it (such as a speed camera). This changes if he has the 'expert' opinion of a collegue to back him up, as the opinion of two Police Officers can be used as evidence. In Epic's case I think his best defence is the distance these Coppers had to look over see him running the light. I'd go back and look at the view from their perspective and see how much of the Junction they could actually observe (and then factor in the fact it was dark). If there is any obscuration, or if you can't see the white line from where they were then he may be in with a chance to cast reasonable doubt on the Officer's allegations. Do they have to use the Turnbull criteria or is that only for identification purposes? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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