imi Posted May 15, 2008 Author Share Posted May 15, 2008 holy crap i am so not liking that elbow welded on the end of the tubby:blink: Hey paul, shed some more light on exactly what you are talking about here in layman terms.... Car should be back within 2 weeks from now in time for le mans. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest racing fan Posted May 15, 2008 Share Posted May 15, 2008 holy crap i am so not liking that elbow welded on the end of the tubby:blink: We weld the elbow on to point the ic piping back towards the Greddy 3 Row piping. Imi will not have an restriction with his T61... we have made over 900rwhp through that exact same setup with a T74. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paul mac Posted May 15, 2008 Share Posted May 15, 2008 (edited) Hey paul, shed some more light on exactly what you are talking about here in layman terms.... i started off tuning 2 strokes and read lots of books, when i got into car tuning i did the same, my Boostlogic turbo came with the same elbow you have but i remembered about pumping loss and fluid flow through tight bends from my HNC and reading A. Graham Bell (forced induction performance tuning) confirmed what i thought, and i quote "in a poorly designed system with a number of tight bends and a restrictive intercooler this can easily reduce boost by 20% " now what this is saying is you are introducing unecessary restrictions in the system (pumping loss) and allthough the sales person above states 900 hp (which i dont dispute) the turbo has to work a lot harder to achieve this (which i'm sure he wont dispute) than a well designed system that avoids the ridiculously tight bend on your turbo - fact, this is not turbo theory it is basic physics (of which i embarrasingly remember little ). I expect most of what i have stated here to be largely ignored by the blow off valve brigade as it is of no interest but in maximising the performance of a turbocharged engine there is not a reputable tuner in the world who would put his name to that elbow, heres my effort, you still get loss through a swept bend but not as much and from an aesthetics point of view which looks "right" Edited March 27, 2013 by Littler (see edit history) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
imi Posted May 20, 2008 Author Share Posted May 20, 2008 i started off tuning 2 strokes and read lots of books, when i got into car tuning i did the same, my Boostlogic turbo came with the same elbow you have but i remembered about pumping loss and fluid flow through tight bends from my HNC and reading A. Graham Bell (forced induction performance tuning) confirmed what i thought, and i quote "in a poorly designed system with a number of tight bends and a restrictive intercooler this can easily reduce boost by 20% " now what this is saying is you are introducing unecessary restrictions in the system (pumping loss) and allthough the sales person above states 900 hp (which i dont dispute) the turbo has to work a lot harder to achieve this (which i'm sure he wont dispute) than a well designed system that avoids the ridiculously tight bend on your turbo - fact, this is not turbo theory it is basic physics (of which i embarrasingly remember little ). I expect most of what i have stated here to be largely ignored by the blow off valve brigade as it is of no interest but in maximising the performance of a turbocharged engine there is not a reputable tuner in the world who would put his name to that elbow, heres my effort, you still get loss through a swept bend but not as much and from an aesthetics point of view which looks "right" so Paul, you commented on the elbow just off the turbo, how do you suggest it should be like? any pics of that? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SilverSoop Posted May 20, 2008 Share Posted May 20, 2008 so Paul, you commented on the elbow just off the turbo, how do you suggest it should be like? any pics of that? Oh imi, i was up at Phoenix last friday having my 2nd decat installed, and i saw your supe there, your single turbo conversion is coming quite along nicely isn't it... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
imi Posted May 20, 2008 Author Share Posted May 20, 2008 Mark has been updating me on a regular basis (making good progress with the head)....I shall perhaps try and visit it tomorrow and get some pics. Really need to get it completely mapped in time for le mans.....and its not the mechanical part of the install that worries me... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SilverSoop Posted May 20, 2008 Share Posted May 20, 2008 Mark has been updating me on a regular basis (making good progress with the head)....I shall perhaps try and visit it tomorrow and get some pics. Really need to get it completely mapped in time for le mans.....and its not the mechanical part of the install that worries me... Oh im sure it'll be fine mate...What bit are you worried about then imi?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
imi Posted May 20, 2008 Author Share Posted May 20, 2008 The electrical bits (fitting of ECU, etc) and then the complete mapping in time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SilverSoop Posted May 20, 2008 Share Posted May 20, 2008 The electrical bits (fitting of ECU, etc) and then the complete mapping in time. Honestly mate, im sure it will all go to plan, dont panic... What ECU are you going with?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paul mac Posted May 21, 2008 Share Posted May 21, 2008 so Paul, you commented on the elbow just off the turbo, how do you suggest it should be like? any pics of that? pic allready there mate , at the end of the day you wont loose much power over this as the boost will be cranked up accordingly and the turbo put under a bit more load than it needs to be, my background is hydraulics/ fluid flow so it shocked me a bit to see an elbow like that on a turbo system that is being optimised for performance, from a flow point of view and inducing pumping loss the elbow you have is as bad as it gets Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Wilson Posted May 21, 2008 Share Posted May 21, 2008 I would agree, a 90 elbow so close to the scroll is BAD news, surely by redesigning the manifold runners a better pipe routing could have been achieved? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
imi Posted May 23, 2008 Author Share Posted May 23, 2008 Appreciate your comments guys.....I saw deans car today and his turbo has a similar 90 deg bend, this seems to be the case with many setups.....apparently inc Terry's two monsters. I can see this not be the ideal design....but atleast I am not the only one. ______________ Saw the car today, Mark is making good progress and the engine head is coming nicely, this time next week it should all be plumbled back into the engine bay.....all I can say is that Mark will be dearly missed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jevansio Posted May 23, 2008 Share Posted May 23, 2008 (edited) This may sound like a stupid idea , why can't the compressor housing be removed and rotated so it points downwards (obviously removing that 90 bend 1st), then a nice smooth curve towards the front left for the FMIC, here's a pic of how my turbo is located and the exit from the compressor is pointing straight down. Edited March 27, 2013 by Littler (see edit history) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
imi Posted May 23, 2008 Author Share Posted May 23, 2008 thats a good suggestion for FMICs...i'm sticking with my uprated SMIC. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ADL Mark Posted May 23, 2008 Share Posted May 23, 2008 Nothing stopping you routing it that way for the SMIC too.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
imi Posted May 25, 2008 Author Share Posted May 25, 2008 (edited) What NGK spark plugs would you guys recommend for my setup? As per the FAQ, i'd like to run a set of coppers during mapping and then perhaps iridums once its all mapped. this is what I read from the FAQ Single Turbo/Big Twins @ upto 1.3bar NGK - BCPR7ES (3330) - gap 0.7mm NGK - BKR7E (6097) - gap 0.7mm NGK - BKR8E - gap to 0.7mm NGK Iridium - BKR7EIX/BKR8EIX - leave gap alone Denso Iridium - IK24 - leave gap alone Single Turbo/Big Twins @ upto 1.8bar NGK - BCPR8ES - gap 0.6-0.7mm NGK - BKR8E - gap 0.6-0.7mm NGK Iridium - BKR8EIX - leave gap alone Denso Iridium - IK27 - leave gap alone Should I go for BKR7EIX OR BKR8EIX If I go for BKR8EIX then what copper plugs should I go for? Where is the best / cheapest place to get hold of spark plugs (both coppers and iridiums) Thx Edited May 25, 2008 by imi (see edit history) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ian R Posted May 25, 2008 Share Posted May 25, 2008 Well what ever maximum boost you will be running will answer your question for you Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
imi Posted May 25, 2008 Author Share Posted May 25, 2008 Well what ever maximum boost you will be running will answer your question for you Not sure whats the max safe boost the car should be mapped to for Tesco 99RON for my setup. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rob wild Posted May 25, 2008 Share Posted May 25, 2008 I've ran both NGK - BCPR8ES NGK - BKR8E and had no problems. I do however change them regularly Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
imi Posted May 25, 2008 Author Share Posted May 25, 2008 I've ran both NGK - BCPR8ES NGK - BKR8E and had no problems. I do however change them regularly I found the iridum equivalent here http://www.sparkplugs.co.uk/pages/pricing/applications/NGK-spark-plugs.asp but am struggling to find the copper equivalent. Seems like the part number doesnt exist... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paul mac Posted May 25, 2008 Share Posted May 25, 2008 Not sure whats the max safe boost the car should be mapped to for Tesco 99RON for my setup. in the tests i have read V-Power (optimax) has come top, dont get hung up on pure octane rating as there are a lot of factors that influence peak power other than just octane Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
imi Posted June 1, 2008 Author Share Posted June 1, 2008 Got two sets of NGK plugs, one copper (tuning) and one after the car is mapped (iridiums). Car is going to be completed by Friday - Tuning is booked for Friday. Am counting the days now...............cant wait. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamieP Posted June 1, 2008 Share Posted June 1, 2008 Not sure whats the max safe boost the car should be mapped to for Tesco 99RON for my setup. Who is mapping it for you? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
imi Posted June 2, 2008 Author Share Posted June 2, 2008 The mapping guru is a resident member on the forum Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Wilson Posted June 2, 2008 Share Posted June 2, 2008 Are you a script writer for "Poirot"? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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