Ian C Posted February 26, 2008 Share Posted February 26, 2008 It's a shame Ryan got such an earbashing off the bloke doing the dyno though isn't it... When he tried to help out and tell them what they were doing wrong. And knowing Ryan, he'd be saying it in a nice friendly way too, so clearly this guy wasn't interested in anyon'e opinion but his own. Despite the graphs shouting "You've done it all wrong" at him It's also annoying that people had to pay for a clearly cocked up dyno run. The turbos will have been spooling late because the cars were in 3rd, so the load is lower on the engine. The dyno should have compensated for this but hey, seems like it was having a bit of an off day... -Ian Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ryan.G Posted February 26, 2008 Share Posted February 26, 2008 As I have spoke to Andy Jnr in the past and found him a nice chap and it seems he does a lot for the club I thought I would post the things I was going to try and say on the phone. As some of you know I use a Dyno dynamics dyno nearly all the time when mapping down south at SRR and here are the points I would look into as I feel the dyno could benefit a lot of people up north. - Dont use the Tacho signal input as explained in the thread above. - Set the rpm against the ecu reading from the laptop or the Tacho in the gear you are running in - Make sure you up rate the those fans. (dastek make one hell of a fan which you can purchase on its own) - Do the runs in 4th (cant do them in 5th as a DD can only go to 150mph) - Use both straps on the DD power bar - Fit an External wideband to log against plots and give the customers Do the above and Im sure it will be a cracking setup DD Dyno’s are one of my favourite as Mike guinea knows (Uk distributor) Ryan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest torque monster Posted February 26, 2008 Share Posted February 26, 2008 Joined the forum just today and read the comments on this thread, just wanted to post a quick reply.. I was very pleased with the way that Saturday's shootout went, we had a lot of fun, especially as this was our first open event in this format. There have been more than a few issues getting the workshop up and running over the past few months (don't ask!), but now the Dyno Dynamics dyno is finally here, we are really flying. Mike Gurney the DD European rep came down with meningitis, and as we did not want to let down 10 Supra owners and 1 Aristo owner, we decided to go ahead with the day anyway. In the end folks had a great deal of fun (enjoying exercising their cars was the whole point of the day) and testimony to this was the fact we were still entertaining Supra owners till 10.30pm, some 5 hours after we finished dyno'ing..! We believe we have an ideal location, and we are building with the intent that we have the best one-stop shop facilities for Supra's anywhere in the UK. Our garage is our own personal playground, and the DD dyno is just another of our big boy's toys... not that we don't take the figures seriously, we do, but the main emphasis is enjoying the cars and seeing what they can actually do. When you visit us here at Miami-GT, as well as visiting our business, we want you to feel you are visiting our home. I am a second generation petrolhead, and I have worked hard to instil this same ethos in each of my three sons. In Andy Jnr's case I have definitely succeeded, as he is a total Supra nutcase...for my own part I confess just a slight addiction for some 2 years now, but I am taking all the tablets, and the doc says I might be cured soon. Yeah..right!! Having read some of the posts from those who did not attend, its seems that there are two constructive criticisms, which we welcome, and are addressing. Thank you for these. I can not believe for one moment that anyone who attended did not thoroughly enjoy themselves and we believe we gave good value for money, but if I am wrong please contact me. It appears we have one young man, who did not attend and whom I have never met or even heard of before, who believes I may have been particularly short with him on the telephone...if this is the case Ryan G, then of course I do apologise. I speak as I find, and when I have stored captured data from the newest version of the very best dyno in the business to back me up, then I will certainly air my views to my customer, if my professional opinion is asked, on the day. If I see some evidence of det and gross overfuelling affecting the top end (as some of my DD snapshots showed on this particular car) then it would actually be irresponsible of me not to mention things to the owner, wouldn't it? After seeing this we chose not to run again to protect the car. One or two who again did not attend have commented that here at Miami-Gt we might not know how to strap cars down, and this may have somehow affected results...when you have been strapped into as many missiles as me you will understand why we do take such great care in strapping down...in other words this is a non-issue. For my own interest on the day I did run manual's in 3rd and 4th gear and took backups. It seemed to make 0.1 bhp difference consistently between the two gears. Yesterday, I bet Mike Gurney the latest DD dyno couldn't accurately grip and measure a 350bhp Supra in 2nd gear, and again I was wrong, and he was right. These DD things really have so much grip when strapped down properly that you could actually run them in 2nd and it would actually make hardly a jot of difference to the driven bhp measured at the rollers. Of course it may alter the flywheel derived calculation. And it's cedrtainly not as much fun as flat chat in 5th, I'll agree, but much safer for everyone in our building, which obviously has to be our primary concern. The output graphs are new and the very latest format from DD, Gurney says that other DD operators will have to pay to upgrade their RR's to get them. On another subject, among Supra engines I am currently building for the new season are a couple of interesting high boost 3.4's. If anyone is interested in seeing piccies of the build or even any of the final dyno runs (or even be present and watch personally), let me know and I will be happy to oblige. More details in a seperate post soon. Living and sleeping next to a shiny new 1200 bhp DD is a total blast...and we currently have seven supras in our workshop to drool over... Not getting a lot of sleep round here currently ...must remember to find another 5bhp from our car before I go to sleep tonight ... now where did I put that other can of C16? zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ryan.G Posted February 26, 2008 Share Posted February 26, 2008 It appears we have one young man, who did not attend and whom I have never met or even heard of before, who believes I may have been particularly short with him on the telephone...if this is the case Ryan G, then of course I do apologise. I speak as I find, and when I have stored captured data from the newest version of the very best dyno in the business to back me up, then I will certainly air my views to my customer, if my professional opinion is asked, on the day. If I see some evidence of det and gross overfuelling affecting the top end (as some of my DD snapshots showed on this particular car) then it would actually be irresponsible of me not to mention things to the owner, wouldn't it? After seeing this we chose not to run again to protect the car. Thank you for apologizing above. I hope the points i made today for you guys at 11:07 help to produce a perfect run everytime as i aggree that the DD dyno's are one of the best out there and wouldn't want dodgy runs to shame their name. Interesting comments on Jays car. Not sure how the car will be detting if it was as rich as you describe and the recorded EGT's were only 750c but im sure your data capture is far more advanced than the AEM logging and knock control which is setup.... Looking at Jays graph again though i must admit it does look like a knock volts graph! I understand a few people have asked you already if they could hire your dyno while i map the cars and you declined which is a shame but i wish you the best of luck in what sounds like a good project you have. Ryan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
suprafan72 Posted February 26, 2008 Share Posted February 26, 2008 edited out.. I wouldn't want to invoke any humour. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jamesmark Posted February 26, 2008 Share Posted February 26, 2008 Were you trained by Dan Turner from Advanced Motorsport and Engineering? Very helpful to the thread. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest torque monster Posted February 26, 2008 Share Posted February 26, 2008 No problem Ryan, our philosophy is that we are, and will remain a one stop shop, and therefore wholly responsible for all the success (or any failure) of all the cars that leave our doors. We KNOW we are going to have the very best set up for Supra's in the North, and as we are not limited by having to have to buy time on someone else's dyno, we know we will get repeatable results, which, to us, is the key. Nothing will leave our premises until it is completely mapped (we did free power runs for all competitors at TOTB last year, and I must have had a dozen guys, Supra's and otherwise say to me "oh it's only mapped to 1.2 bar cos we ran out of time"). That won't happen with us because we sleep next door to the Dyno and the workshop (quite literally the last couple of days) As you know I have strong opinions and I personally would not run the risk of getting a bad rep by mapping on anything other than a Dyno Dynamics, but that's just me. We know about the fan issue (again we were let down), but as we had no monsters planned for saturday it was never going to be any real issue. This is now sorted, as we have something on the way with blades which will rival the nearby windfarm in preparation for some of the bigger stuff we are mapping soon. We will be taking the Dyno to some of the bigger Supra events, so we will probably bump into you at one of these. Best regards, Andrew senior Miami-GT Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jevansio Posted February 27, 2008 Author Share Posted February 27, 2008 For my own interest on the day I did run manual's in 3rd and 4th gear and took backups Andy, I appologise for saying you only did the runs in 3rd on my car (which is big part of the flaming in this thread), I did assumed that as when I was in the car with you that run was done in 3rd. Any chance I can have the data/graph for the 4th gear pull. Also you mention evidence of det, which I wasn't aware of, which concerns me. Do you still have the snapshots of this (and the overfuelling)?, if so I'd really appreciate them so I can have my guys look into it, Cheers bud Jay Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex Posted February 27, 2008 Share Posted February 27, 2008 Sorry, but I'm not really going to buy any mitigating circumstances/excuses you'd like to give for Jay's dyno. 1. It works fine on the road. 2. It's worked fine on other dyno's. 3. You have a 1200BHP dyno but can't get 600BHP under control, smokin' rear tyres etc... 4. You seemed to start so high up the rev range that the car will have little change to bed into the dyno, instead you'd get a mass of torque ripping the tyres free, especially in 3rd. 5. How can you have a dyno result that's so wrong at 3000-5000 rpm on a vehicle/engine that perfectly complies with 1 and 2?? 6. Full boost is never achieved at the right rpm's due to the wrong gear. I really would give him his money back. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tooquicktostop Posted February 27, 2008 Share Posted February 27, 2008 Our garage is our own personal playground, and the DD dyno is just another of our big boy's toys... not that we don't take the figures seriously, we do, but the main emphasis is enjoying the cars and seeing what they can actually do. I was not there and I am glad everyone had fun, my concern as an owner that has had a car let go due to poor mapping and lack of attention on the dyno is that the above statement made by Miami makes me feel that it was all a big game and that seeing what a car can do without taking the right precautions could cost someone their engine, just my opinion but I would have perhaps worded it in another way, yes dynos should be fun but they can also kill a car if not used correctly Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TLicense Posted February 27, 2008 Share Posted February 27, 2008 Andy Snr, Looks like you've got a good piece of kit there.... Why's Jay's graph look like it's been drawn on Etcha-sketch though? Looks very Bizaare! Also I've heard that you've been on the EFI course, which I'm also thinking of attending. Can you tell us how that went? Would you recommend it? All the best of luck for the future! Tony Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt H Posted February 27, 2008 Share Posted February 27, 2008 ... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt H Posted February 27, 2008 Share Posted February 27, 2008 Here is my dyno prints, UK auto TT. http://i121.photobucket.com/albums/o238/jamesmark8378/DSC00783.jpg http://i121.photobucket.com/albums/o238/jamesmark8378/DSC00785.jpg :rlol: i've NEVER seen anything like that! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest torque monster Posted February 27, 2008 Share Posted February 27, 2008 Andy Snr, Looks like you've got a good piece of kit there.... Why's Jay's graph look like it's been drawn on Etcha-sketch though? Looks very Bizaare! Also I've heard that you've been on the EFI course, which I'm also thinking of attending. Can you tell us how that went? Would you recommend it? All the best of luck for the future! Tony Ben Strader is excellent went in the US last year, PM me if you want to know more details but i would highly recommend as a base to work from if this is your passion. If you are a petrolhead like we are you are more than welcome in our facilities at any time:) Andrew Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaveSupTT Posted February 28, 2008 Share Posted February 28, 2008 Andy Snr, Why's Jay's graph look like it's been drawn on Etcha-sketch though? Looks very Bizaare! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaveSupTT Posted February 28, 2008 Share Posted February 28, 2008 [quote name= Originally Posted by jamesmark Here is my dyno prints, UK auto TT. http://i121.photobucket.com/albums/o...8/DSC00783.jpg http://i121.photobucket.com/albums/o...8/DSC00785.jpg : i've NEVER seen anything like that! :rlol: i've NEVER seen anything like that! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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