Alex Posted July 16, 2002 Share Posted July 16, 2002 In case any of you are interested.... I had a chat with Mel Johnson of Docking Engineering (he's their Engineering Sales Manager) I phoned Docking (because CW recommended them) as my rad is screwed...IMO...and I wanted to investigate getting an Alu one to replace it with. The stock rad is a 2Row job...but I'm not sure what materials are used (copper & brass or alu???) and its 375x640x48mm's in size. Docking use a single row construction with a 42mm core this ends up being thinner and although its alu and not the stock copper (which has a higher thermal efficiency) you would think it would perform worse than the stock one..... The trickery comes in the fin design and the fact its a single row. By using Alu they can use a finer, more compact fin design and by having the single row the airflow is less impeded and more efficient. Overall the 42mm core has more surface volume than the stock 48mm 2row job. So yes the alu ones are better but not massively. Mel then went on to explain the cost implications of a one off job and that they had done one for a Supra before. He questioned whether anyone would stock/mass produce such a rad. Ah-ha, I thought, Fluidyne! "Oh.…..mmm…yes" he said From his tone I thought "Uh-oh….what now!" He had a DeTomaso Pantera in the shop right now with a Fluidyne rad that they were replacing. He told me that the rad core they had there from fluidyne was a 2row and lacking in surface area as the fins weren’t tightly enough packed. In short he didn't think it would be any better than a stock unit or a Copper/Brass one. I don't know what construction is used in the Fluidyne Supra rad, could someone let me know? I was going to get a Fluidyne or other custom job until I found this out. The conversation left me wondering if the Fluidyne is actually better or whether the simple fact that its new, unfurred, unblocked and running at 100% of its own efficiency has unintentionally fooled people into thinking that its better, especially in the case of those who bought one because the fitment of an FMIC, which caused a rise in running temps. Still after all this speculation I would like to know 1) What is the stock rad made of? 2) What core type is the fluidyne? 3) The cost of a Docking one comes down with more orders...anyone interested? A one off is £600 4) I need a technical drawing of the stock rad to send to Docking...if anyone has one to scale then I would really appreciate it...otherwise I'll have to do a cr@ppy one! not my strongest skill! 5) Does anyone know how much a stock one Toyota is? 6) Does anyone have a good condition stock one for sale? Cheers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Cargill Posted July 16, 2002 Share Posted July 16, 2002 Originally posted by Alex Holdroyd 5) Does anyone know how much a stock one Toyota is? I **think** they are about 400 quid from Toyota, or about 250 for an aftermarket one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terminator Posted July 16, 2002 Share Posted July 16, 2002 I will ask Andy when he comes back to the UK, he bought a stock rad for his Jap 6 speed. Not cheap as I recall. Arround the £500 fitted at a guess. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adam W Posted July 16, 2002 Share Posted July 16, 2002 I got what looks to be a really good rad from Chris Wilson for my Mk3. 160 row vs 120 row, and a very good price. Don't know if he can source anything for a IV or not . . . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Wilson Posted July 16, 2002 Share Posted July 16, 2002 Originally posted by Adam Wootten I got what looks to be a really good rad from Chris Wilson for my Mk3. 160 row vs 120 row, and a very good price. Don't know if he can source anything for a IV or not . . . Not yet available, probably unlikely to be :-( As to stock rad, it's ali with plastic crimped on end tanks. Fluidyne also ali, but with welded ali end tanks. It's all down to core design, more rows, front to back, become very inefficient as the air is heated as it passes the first row and gets hotter as it moves on through. They also are aerodynamically inefficient, and are now old hat. Current "best" coes are by Secam (French) and the simialr one from Sercks. Both are VERY expensive but basically you could have a more efficient rad made, 2/3rds the size..and lighter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nic Posted July 17, 2002 Share Posted July 17, 2002 Judging by the photo on the home page http://www.fluidyne.com/index.htm it looks like Fluidyne use twin 'coorrrrs' I had a Fluidyne radiator fitted after my stock one went bang and put a big crack in the plastic header tank. l'd be interested to find out if the design/construction of the Fluidyne radiator is actually better than the stock rad, does anyone know? Paul W? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Martin F Posted July 17, 2002 Share Posted July 17, 2002 Originally posted by Chris Wilson As to stock rad, it's ali with plastic crimped on end tanks. They did change the stock rad to copper at some point, i think it may have been abbout '96 at the same time as the facelift. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex Posted July 17, 2002 Author Share Posted July 17, 2002 Thanks so far, I got £371 ex VAT (435 inc vat) from my local Toyota Garage. Could we ask that chap in Holland (Eric??) for a price? Phil, you've got his no. haven't you? A fluidyne is ~£450 + VAT from PW. So I think the stock unit wins hands down in the VFM ratings unless someone can tell me why I should spend the extra? Or if there is 5+ orders for a Docking one then its cost comes down dramatically. ******** Also, I was also thinking about the twin electric fan conversion (I'm not going to get one but it follwed on in my train of thought). Can you rig the fans to come on with the electrics (not the engine just the electrics) so that they can continue to run after the engine has been shut down....wouldn't that be best for trackdays etc? would I just have to tap it in to a 12v power source which activates when the electrics do? Would this be wise? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Martin F Posted July 17, 2002 Share Posted July 17, 2002 About £292 from Jay Marks. My electric fans are hooked up so that they can run with only the ignition on. The thing to watch is your battery, as the fans draw quite a lot of current and if you are stationary then obviously temps will go up for a while so your fans could be running for quite a time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matt Posted July 17, 2002 Share Posted July 17, 2002 Originally posted by Alex Holdroyd Or if there is 5+ orders for a Docking one then its cost comes down dramatically. ******** I could be interested .......... how much ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GavinL Posted July 17, 2002 Share Posted July 17, 2002 If I remember correctly the auto and the manual have different designs of rad. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Martin F Posted July 17, 2002 Share Posted July 17, 2002 Yep, sorry that price was for a manual as I know Alex has a man's car...... Auto would probably be a bit more expensive because of the transmission cooler. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex Posted July 17, 2002 Author Share Posted July 17, 2002 Cheers Martin...I have indeed got a "proper" Sup...well for now anyway. Does that £292 inc tax but exclude shipping/import duty? Can't find any info on Secam on the web....can anyone else? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Martin F Posted July 18, 2002 Share Posted July 18, 2002 Originally posted by Alex Holdroyd Does that £292 inc tax but exclude shipping/import duty? That's about it, i would phone Jaymarks and get the price confirmed though, they can also give you an idea on shipping costs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Terry S Posted July 18, 2002 Share Posted July 18, 2002 I have a fluidyne after my stock rad blew ( literally) the top tank. The Fluidyne has performed faultlessly & the car seems to run cooler. I thin Paul Whiffin sells them now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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