Alex Posted February 6, 2008 Share Posted February 6, 2008 Ian's right. (and the others that voted yes) Unfortunately I got it after pressing No... The wheels have no relevance. The engine thrusts the body of the plane fwd until lift is achieved at which point the wheels only use (holding the plane up) is over. But the tyres will possibly explode due to the speeds they'll rotate at. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt H Posted February 6, 2008 Share Posted February 6, 2008 Imagine a toy car on a treadmill with your finger at the back off it. Run the treadmill at any speed you like and push forward on the car. Does the car stay where it is? Good analogy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikeyb10supra Posted February 6, 2008 Share Posted February 6, 2008 It's not a car ffs. The engines work on the air around it which ISN'T moving, the treadmill thing just means the unpowered wheels will spin twice as fast as normal as the plane takes off perfectly normally. Steady on there Ian, were not all albert eisteins easiest way is to imagine You are running on a treadmill but the treadmill is too fast, you run quicker. (whereas a jet would thrust more) but you stay central to the treadmill, and if you held your arms out theres no air traveling under your arms the same speed you are running, rofl. As the question stipulates, the conveyor moves the exact same as the plane but backwards, back to the treadmill speed thought. im certainly not any physics guru but this was my thinking as well Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt H Posted February 6, 2008 Share Posted February 6, 2008 I was the first to say the plane would blow (I win) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spidermonkey Posted February 6, 2008 Share Posted February 6, 2008 All wrong hmmm don't think so Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedM Posted February 6, 2008 Share Posted February 6, 2008 The plane takes off but would need to use a lot more power than normal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gaz6002 Posted February 6, 2008 Share Posted February 6, 2008 Perfect example, the power to move you forwards on the tread mill is going through your legs (I.e wheels) but the power from the plane is not being fed through the wheels (I.e Legs) its coming from your arse therefore you will fly forward off the tread mill Thats only true after the point that the legs can cancel the thrust out though. If we had wheels and bearings that could endure infinite speed/heat then this isn't true at all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ric Posted February 6, 2008 Share Posted February 6, 2008 Imagine a toy car on a treadmill with your finger at the back off it. Run the treadmill at any speed you like and push forward on the car. Does the car stay where it is? no it wouldn't move if the treadmill responded quick enough with the extra speed in the opposite direction of which the example in the first post is getting across, the forward speed is matched in the opposite direction Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt H Posted February 6, 2008 Share Posted February 6, 2008 I clicked no but then realised that the power doesnt get fed to the wheels of a plan, it pushes on the air no the conveyor belt. But then again, i should have clicked blown up, because the wheels will end up moving faster and faster and faster then probably fall off, then the plane would hit the deck, the conveyor belt would sent it flying of the end of itself in the opposite direction and then smash boom The wheels are free to move as they want though surely, so they would just spin faster and faster......then fall off (as the plane move forward) I was the first to say the plane would blow (I win) Thats only true after the point that the legs can cancel the thrust out though. If we had wheels and bearings that could endure infinite speed/heat then this isn't true at all. See all the above Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thorin Posted February 6, 2008 Share Posted February 6, 2008 no it wouldn't move if the treadmill responded quick enough with the extra speed in the opposite direction Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gaz6002 Posted February 6, 2008 Share Posted February 6, 2008 See all the above Thats my point - the planes wheels would fall off before take-off hence it wouldn't go anywhere. Great thread BTW Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Posted February 6, 2008 Share Posted February 6, 2008 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U9STo3fjfGg&feature=related How can the plane be moving forward if the 'tread mill' is moving at the same speed? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt H Posted February 6, 2008 Share Posted February 6, 2008 Thats my point - the planes wheels would fall off before take-off hence it wouldn't go anywhere. Great thread BTW I know it is, thought you had'nt realised i agree with you Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gaz6002 Posted February 6, 2008 Share Posted February 6, 2008 I know it is, thought you had'nt realised i agree with you Nah just re-enforcing our point lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex Posted February 6, 2008 Share Posted February 6, 2008 no it wouldn't move if the treadmill responded quick enough with the extra speed in the opposite direction of which the example in the first post is getting across, the forward speed is matched in the opposite direction No - FORGET THE WHEELS!!!! Thrust from a jet engine acts on AIR thus pushing it fwd through the air - it's position to the earth doesn't matter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gaz6002 Posted February 6, 2008 Share Posted February 6, 2008 No - FORGET THE WHEELS!!!! Thrust from a jet engine acts on AIR thus pushing it fwd through the air - it's position to the earth doesn't matter. You CAN'T forget the wheels as they are the contact with the treadmill going in the opposite direction. To get lift you have to combat gravity, which is acting on the plane through the wheels. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spidermonkey Posted February 6, 2008 Share Posted February 6, 2008 No - FORGET THE WHEELS!!!! Thrust from a jet engine acts on AIR thus pushing it fwd through the air - it's position to the earth doesn't matter. no but the thrust is only there to get a greater volume of air MOVING under the wing, the plane must move foward to take off Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thorin Posted February 6, 2008 Share Posted February 6, 2008 I thought my analogy would make it perfectly clear, obviously not. Do people honestly think that if the treadmill was moving at 200MPH this would stop you from pushing the toy car forward off the end of the treadmill? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt H Posted February 6, 2008 Share Posted February 6, 2008 Heres one for you: The plane will never take off because: Considering the infiinte power of the thread mill to speed up its own movement, then the ability for the rubber to with stand the heat of the speed they are doing, and the fact that the wheel bearings wont ever fail and loads of other impractical assumptions....... Then the wheels may end up moving towards the speed of light, becoming so heavy due to the Newtons theory of what happends when matter aside from light moves towards that speed. It doesnt matter that the plane if moving forward, it wont be able to lift the wheels of the ground... but thats just ridiculous. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gaz6002 Posted February 6, 2008 Share Posted February 6, 2008 I thought my analogy would make it perfectly clear, obviously not. Do people honestly think that if the treadmill was moving at 200MPH this would stop you from pushing the toy car forward off the end of the treadmill? Yes. Because every time you push the car the treadmill speeds up. Never-ending battle until the wheels fall off. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt H Posted February 6, 2008 Share Posted February 6, 2008 no but the thrust is only there to get a greater volume of air MOVING under the wing, the plane must move foward to take off No its to move the plane forward. The plane moves forward and the SPEED of the air moving accross the wings is what lifts it. THe greater the speed, the greater the difference in pressure above and below the wing, the lack of pressure above the wing in comparrision to below it makes the plane lift off Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gaz6002 Posted February 6, 2008 Share Posted February 6, 2008 Newtons. Every action has an equal and opposite reaction. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrRalphMan Posted February 6, 2008 Author Share Posted February 6, 2008 Yes. Because every time you push the car the treadmill speeds up. Never-ending battle until the wheels fall off. Only if you were pushing from the treadmill... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spidermonkey Posted February 6, 2008 Share Posted February 6, 2008 I thought my analogy would make it perfectly clear, obviously not. Do people honestly think that if the treadmill was moving at 200MPH this would stop you from pushing the toy car forward off the end of the treadmill? not if the force you are acting on the car equates to 200mph;) the question states the treadmill device acting on the plane acts oppositely equally to the planes motion, or have i missunderstood the question Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt H Posted February 6, 2008 Share Posted February 6, 2008 Every action has an equal and opposite reaction. nope thats no it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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