If a tree falls

[Ewen]

It doesnt make a noise. It creates pressure waves / vibrations in the air that will dissipate over distance and time. If a receiver, such as your ear drum, picks these waves / vibrations up then your brain will translate them into noise. If no receiver / ear is in the vicinity, no noise is made. A tape recorder will record the waves / vibrations, but again, the playback will only make a noise if your ear is there to hear it.

[Pete]

It doesnt make a noise. It creates pressure waves / vibrations in the air that will dissipate over distance and time. If a receiver, such as your ear drum, picks these waves / vibrations up then your brain will translate them into sound. If no receiver / ear is in the vicinity, no sound is made. A tape recorder will record the waves / vibrations, but again, the playback will only make a noise if your ear is there to hear it.

 

According to one definition of the word 'sound' :

Vibrations transmitted through an elastic solid or a liquid or gas, with frequencies in the approximate range of 20 to 20,000 hertz, capable of being detected by human organs of hearing.

So the vibrations themselves are sound, regardless of someone being there to witness them.

[Darren-K]

But if we cant see it, then how do you know it emits light?

 

well physics tells us that the star emits light,we can also use our own sun as an example,

the star must emit light as its a side effect of the stars life span.

Its impossible for it not to emit light,

we know we all have a heart,becuase you cant see it doesnt mean you dont have one

[R Black]

It makes noise & it does'nt make noise, its in both states unless observed.Same as Schrodinger pussy.

[Darren-K]

It doesnt make a noise. It creates pressure waves / vibrations in the air that will dissipate over distance and time. If a receiver, such as your ear drum, picks these waves / vibrations up then your brain will translate them into sound. If no receiver / ear is in the vicinity, no sound is made. A tape recorder will record the waves / vibrations, but again, the playback will only make a noise if your ear is there to hear it.

 

No Ewen,its a physical event,its a collision - wether an ear drum percieves the event or not the event still occurs.

[Darren-K]

There is 1 exception to all regarding sound.

If the sound occurs in a vacum.. then there is no sound .

[TonyP]

well physics tells us that the star emits light,we can also use our own sun as an example,

the star must emit light as its a side effect of the stars life span.

Its impossible for it not to emit light,

 

If you can't see the light how do you know the star is there?

 

 

we know we all have a heart,becuase you cant see it doesnt mean you dont have one

 

You can hear it and feel it.

 

No Ewen,its a physical event,its a collision - wether an ear drum percieves the event or not the event still occurs.

 

The actual question being asked is really does sound exist without there being anyone to hear it. Personally I think no. Sound is the brain translating vibrations in the air into something we recognise as sound.

 

There is no answer but it's fun discussing it.

[Ewen]

There is 1 exception to all regarding sound.

If the sound occurs in a vacum.. then there is no sound .

So if the tree fell in a vacuum environment, it wouldnt make a noise ? Probably because there would be no sound waves for your ears to receive.

A dog whistle...we cant hear it but we know it makes a noise ?. What if the tree falling caused sound waves at the same high frequency as a dog whistle...it wouldnt make a noise to us even if it fell right next to us. The ears the key.

[Darren-K]

it is fun,

and the subject was brought up recently in a science program i watched regarding atoms and quarks,the theory was that an atom doesnt actualy exist untill its observed.

so youve got me there TonyP

[Darren-K]

So if the tree fell in a vacuum environment, it wouldnt make a noise ? .

 

nope,def not,thats where films like star wars screw up with the explosion sounds and lazer zaps etc in space..

 

but see my previous reply Ewen,

you got me

[TonyP]

the theory was that an atom doesnt actualy exist untill its observed.

 

 

Yeah I've heard something like that before. Don't understand that at all.:blink:

[far]

:blink:if a bear sh*ts in the woods do you smell the sh*t?

[TonyP]

:blink:if a bear sh*ts in the woods do you smell the sh*t?

 

Who gives a sh*t.

[Darren-K]

Yeah I've heard something like that before. Don't understand that at all.:blink:

 

Here you go Tony,

this is one experiment on the subject,its quite cruel -so cat lovers do not read .

Schroedinger's Cat

Schroedinger was able to come up with a thought experiment which demonstrated just how incomplete the physical view of the world given by quantum physics is. He proposed one could place a cat in a box with a radioactive source, a bottle of cyanide and a Geiger counter. There is a fifty-fifty chance that the radioactive material will decay in some period of time. If it does decay the Geiger counter detects the particle and crushes the bottle of cyanide killing the cat. Since there is a fifty-fifty chance of decay, if the material does not decay the cat will stay alive. To any observer outside the box, the time of detection is when the box is actually opened and it is revealed whether the cat is dead or alive. Until then, the cat is both dead and alive! However, one might think that the presence of a cat might cause wave function collapse? If this is so then would the presence of a hamster do the same? If the cat is replaced with a human presumably this would cause the wave function to collapse. From this thought experiment we can see that there remains confusion in quantum theory as to what constitutes a measurement.

[Kopite]

So if someone's completely deaf and is in a room with a stereo on full blast or something and they're the only person there, there isn't any noise in the room? If the volumes loud enough to make their organs or the floor shake then what's that classed as being caused by? If it's sound waves then how does the person know it's sound waves as he can't hear....

[Darren-K]

If a tree falls in the woods and there is no-one there to hear it, does it make a noise

634,000 for If a tree falls in the woods and there is no-one there to hear it, does it make a noise

 

http://www.google.co.uk/search?hl=en&q=If+a+tree+falls+in+the+woods+and+there+is+no-one+there+to+hear+it%2C+does+it+make+a+noise&btnG=Google+Search&meta=

[RiceRocket]

Ultimately isn't it about energy transferal, Potential = Kinetic = Sound?

[Havard]

Ok then, after reading this thread I now have one question.

 

If a bear sh!ts in the woods, is the pope Catholic??

[ivan]

Who cares about the tree?

I'm still trying to figure out what colour is yellow.

[dangerous brain]

Ah but heres the whole thing. If the tree falls and there is no anything to feel its waves how do you ever prove it made waves? Maybe it falls inoccoulesly silent in its own demise.

[Guest CoolsBlue]

it DOES make a noise, but nobody is there to hear it. stop trying to get round it, the sound will be produced its just that noone can hear it.

[Kranz]

If a tree falls on a Mkivsupra.net mod who has just read this entire thread would he/she make a noise other than a pathetic whimper of "At least there'll be no more off topic"

[Thorin]

There is no tree.

[Getrag]

Havent read the rest of the posts but no, it does not make a sound.

 

A "sound" is a human perception of an electrical signal, created as airwaves vibrate the ear drum, along the middle ear bones, into the cochlea and then the brain.

 

So, when no animal is there, those displaced airwaves will still take place, they just wont be perceived.

[Tannhauser]

To leave aside 'sound needs a person to perceive it' a second, athough I don't think it's intended to be, you can also treat this as an issue of inductive logic.

 

What makes us think that trees make a sound when they fall over? This belief is based on previous experience - every tree we have seen thus far in our lives has made a sound. Therefore, we conclude that this must be true of every tree.

 

 

This is "inductive reasoning". The argument takes the form:

 

So far X has always been Y

 

Therefore:

 

X will always be Y in every single instance in the future.

 

Now, whilst on a practical everyday level, we have to use inductive reasoning otherwise we wouldn't ever do anything, it's not a flawless reasoning system. It doesn't necessarily follow that just because X has always been Y, it will inevitably and always be Y in the future.

 

For example, if every sheep I have ever seen is white, I may conclude through induction that all sheep are white. Similarly, I may conclude that the Sun has always risen in the morning, therefore it must always do so. But neither are correct. It is possible to imagine a scenario in which the sun doesn't rise tomorrow (e.g. a meteorite shatters the earth into smithereens during the night) or I encounter a black sheep ( awaits 'racist' comment).

 

Does the tree falling into the wood make a sound? We use inductive reasoning, based on other trees, to draw a general conclusion: trees make a sound when falling. We then use deductive logic to finish it off:

 

All trees make a noise when falling

A tree in a wood with no one there is still a tree

Therefore that tree must make a noise when falling.

 

...but the problem is with the first line. Although it's very, very, very likely that all trees make a noise when falling, we cannot be certain that this tree does too unless we directly observe it. And since we aren't there to observe it, we can't know whether it does or doesn't.

 

And to finish off, a joke:

 

Interviewer: Sir Paul, do you think you will ever go down on one knee again?

Paul McCartney: I prefer if you refer to her as 'Heather'