Who has your vote?

[Snooze]

I have never voted and never will under the current system, for a number of reasons (in reverse order of importance):

 

3) We don't have real proportional representation. I live in a constituency with a consistent 5,000-10,000 majority so my 1 puny vote does not make a jot of difference (oh - and if anyone comes with the "...if everybody thought like that...." line, then the answer is "yes. If everybody thought like that then of course I would start voting, because my vote WOULD make a difference." Don't expect that ever to happen, though!).

 

2) As mentioned before, they're all pretty much the same - they say what they want to get votes and then do whatever the hell they like when they get in anyhow, so you don't really know what you're voting for. I had this idea where an independent body would actually assess how well an incumbent government had met their pre-election promises during the preceeding term. Any shortfall would be converted into a corresponding penalty in the following election (votes/seats taken off or something).

 

1) I am not qualified to vote! I consider myself pretty up-to-date with current affairs, a reasonably intelligent (haha!), well-read (bwahahahaha!) person. But still, am I really qualified to know whether it's best to invade Iraq or not? Am I qualified to know whether we should join the Euro? NO. Of course not. I am not privvy to all the information that would be needed to make the right decision. I've no idea of all the political or economic ramifications of joining the Euro. I've no idea what the effect on the UK economy dissing the US by not supporting their military activity would have. So I can't possibly decide what's best for the country!

[Gaz Walker]

Brilliant post Gaz, loved this bit!

 

Are you taking the piss?

 

Have the Lib Dems ever been cool and trendy? They look like paedophiles

 

 

Gaz.

[keancy]

I vote we move this thread to Off topic

[ivan]

Someone move this crap out of Supra chat, please.

[tbourner]

Bnp

[RedM]

Bnp

 

Prat.

[tbourner]

knob

[RedM]

Handle.

[tbourner]

Shouldn't this be in word association?

[RedM]

Nah! It's all about being 'Off Topic' these days.

[JustGav]

The problem is extreme parties like the BNP could gain support even more in the future. After all if the usual suspects such as labour and tories are unable to do the job people who would normally vote for them would consider voting in a way that would result in action.

 

For instance if the BNP said they would sort out immigration and jobs for 'british' only people, how many people would hear that and forget about the more extreme views those parties share.

[Charlotte]

Too fooking right!!

 

I bet anyone who was affected in that era would go back to that compared to now!! This place has become insanity - gone mad!!

 

H.

 

Have you been on a train lately?

 

The last time I did there were 3 people to every one seat and I had to stand for the entire 3 hour journey.

 

I'm not sure every decision she made was a good one.

[Carl_S]

I have no idea what the tories or anybody else stands for to be honest.

 

Nobody is going to lower taxes, remember the government is run as a business at the end of the day. The level of income can't go down...

 

State control? Without putting a tinhat on, of course the government don't have control of things. Where do you think election money comes from. The money is paid for "assistance" with whatever corporate issue they have. Do you think all these government watch bodies are here to look after us? Majority of things are licensed by them via the government. Look at the 3G license fiasco, we are talking about radio spectrum here. The prices that they went for was just stupid. Yes I realise this sounds very much like an alumnati conspiracy but such is life.

 

Disclaimer : My own opinion

 

The level of income as you say, might not go down no. But certain groups can be taxed more, so effectively some groups will be better off finacially with another government.

 

So your saying that the gov, charged way beyond any normal radio bandwith, for the 3g licence? Why not though? 3g a big company, and its using that bandwidth for a different purpose. Yes they are not mugs, and need to make money.

[Carl_S]

Bring back Maggie!

 

All conservatives think that way. Getting watery eyes at the mention of her name. Love the way Gordon Brown invited her to no.10 for a cup of tea, and a photocall to embarass cameron.

 

Okay, lets shake it up a bit.

 

Capitalism by its very nature is negative towards its own people. The main basis of capitalism is that profit dictates success. This success is done at the expense of those lower down the chain. Sadly most political parties are driven by capitalists.

 

Oh dear that makes me sound like a right red

 

Disclaimer : Same as the above

 

You are right about capitalism, but policitians are usually rounded people that make decision based on a range of issues, not just a mechanical response to capitalist ideology.

 

 

 

as mentioned by others beforehand.... I hate the lot of em! They lie cheat and rob their way through life AND get paid for it. They havent done anything to help me in my life and doubt they will. I have never voted (and before those that say you should) I never will. there is no one out for the country.... hell you even have a PM that wasnt voted in..... yeah... works for me.

 

They haven't helped you? How *could* they have helped you?

 

Are you taking the piss?

 

Have the Lib Dems ever been cool and trendy? They look like paedophiles and until Nick Clegg won the leadership they had some very odd policies and proposals. In some ways they are like the Ramblers association. The Lib Dems were the anti-fun party, they'd slap a tax on orgasms if they could.

 

 

Lol. I was young and foolish - I needed a cute party (I notice they are getting cute women on the front benches, to offset the ming effect no doubt). So they are a high tax party? I agree, and they don't ever seem to be afraid of admitting it.

 

 

I cannot see how Iraq could possibly be considered 'a good thing'. Blair should be in The Hauge for war crimes ffs. Nothing good whats so ever has come out of the Iraqi invasion, or Afganistan for that matter- 7 years of work there has just been undone because now we are talking to the Taliban to co-operate the vanquishing of Al Qa'ida. We now have global insecurity, $100 a barrel oil, huge terrorism threats and 4000 dead soldiers amongst the allies and god knows how many seriously wounded- 30,000? Independent reports claim 645,000 Iraqis have died, with 9 million homeless, 60% have no power or sanitation.

 

Blair a war crimimal? Lol. No, more like a hero, yea he made mistakes but the whole point is that he is elected to make decisions based on the information he has, and for the good of the country. I dont think he should be penalised for that. Yeah its a sorry state, but what is seven years in the scheme of things? Would you rather not try and suppress terrorism, than wait till it comes onto your shores? Brave soldiers, and support staff are out there fighting for us to help keep us safe, and becuase they are professionals. It's a long term battle, but surely one worth fighting? Terrorism and anti americanism didnt suddenly spring into life because we and the US invaded iraq and afghanistan, its been around and brewing at getting worse for ages. Even hundreds of years!

 

High tax on cars is already here- this year it will cost £400 to tax a band G car- that's 225g/km- ie f*ck all, that's big Mondeo territory. Luckily there's a loophole for 2001-2002 Supras or they would be paying £300. Do you know how much of that £1 a litre is tax- 85% of the whole. That doesn't mean we pay 85% tax on juice, it means we pay 85p tax on 15p's worth of petrol- is that not something like 550% tax?

 

Oh, lol. I really doubt that I will be paying £400 road tax on my supra this year. That will not happen. Not even half that. And yeah, petrol needs to be taxed - partly for revenue, but even more so for environmental reasons, and rightly so.

 

 

Has Gold ever gone down, and not recovered? I'm not a business expert but it's funny how the city boys always consider gold as a safe bet and say when all else fails invest in gold. IIrc the press, pundits and experts all critised GB for selling off the gold.

 

Yeah, well I bow to people with real knowledge on the subject. Seems like the did make a big mistake, but, it they may have been badly advised by the private sector, surely decisions like that arent done on a whim.

 

 

As for Labour avoiding boom or bust- lets be fair, Gordon inherited a very strong economy from the conservatives, money has been very easy to buy and a major shortage of housing has driven the economy upwards. It was more sleight of hand & sheer luck than pure economic genuis that we avoided a reccesion in 2001. Cheap credit is coming home to roost now though, how much did the Gov loan (either actual, proposed or hypothetical) Nothern Rock? £56bn- if a buyer can't be found then the Gov has to either nationalise the bank and actually stump up the cash, or devalue Sterling by the same amount loaned. That's a lot of wonga- 8 nuclear power stations, 100 hospitals and you could refit the army with the change. It's a staggering amount of money, all for a bank worth £500m at the most.

 

Thats right, Major handed over a stable economy, and Blair had to prove that he would not mess up the economy so he kept to the tory spending plans for a year or so after he gained office in 1997.

 

Its not our government's fault that the sub prime US lending hit us, and drove up the cost of mortgages, and made Northern Rock fail. I think the Gov did the right thing with a rescue pacage for them. Think if you had money in northern rock. I know I would have liked them to bail it out, if I had money there.

 

Labour is as sleazy as the Tories ever were, alright they weren't caught shagging rentboys with an orange in their mouths, but does Cash for Honours ring any bells? Peter Mandelson? Dave 'I didn't know she was a minger' Blunkett? They are all the same, shagging, snorting and bribing their way around the circuit.

 

Yeah there will be corruption in any party. I believe the tories were worse at the time in 1997, and presently they seem about as bad as eachother in that respect. Of course labour will be more under the spotlight becuase they are in office, and rightly so under the spolight. But cash for honors? That was going on under the tories, and pretty much always has in our system since it began. Sex and power, happens all the time. I know if I was blunket, or prescott, I would find it very hard to turn down a bit of half decent skirt in the office if I was not getting it good at home.

 

Labour have brought in 3000 new laws, the majority of which were already covered- ie "It is illegal to detonate a nuclear device". I reckon that one might have already been covered by about 15 laws, I don't think we needed to waste more money ratifying that one, and there's 2999 to go...

 

Yea I agree, there are too many laws and regs, and red tape. Hopefully Labour will take this aboard and streamline a bit.

 

 

Labour have also hopped on the environmental band wagon and used it as a means of control and revenue- we can't fix the hole in the ozone with £50 notes can we. Labour- and the Lib Dems put 'Envy' in environment. If they genuinely gave a shit they would have proposed the new nuclear powerstations ten years ago, made all trains, taxis and buses electric, make solar pannels mandatory on all new build houses and stopped subsidising farmers to grow feck all and to grow crops or livestock and try to reduce our need for imports of food, energy and consumer goods.

Perhaps they should have saved Rover and had them make ministerial and public sector cars? How many police cars here are built overseas for example?

 

Interesting. I believe they would not have had the public support at the time to do all these green things. Maybe they should have. It takes guts to go against public opinion and do whats right. Would the tories have? All easier with hindsight. Yes green taxes are a good source of revenue, but at the end of the day, business will not react in an enviromental way unless they can 1) make more money by going green 2) They are taxed more heavily. Taxation is the way to change businesses' hearts. Then they will see the other arguments.

 

Interestingly Biofuel is now seen as not actually that green now the entire dust to dust lifecycle has been calculated- how many other green ideas are not as friendly as they were advertised?

[JustGav]

So your saying that the gov, charged way beyond any normal radio bandwith, for the 3g licence? Why not though? 3g a big company, and its using that bandwidth for a different purpose. Yes they are not mugs, and need to make money.

3 was only one of the companies that got a license, however where did all the money go and it was a silly large amount... Don't recall it going into the people. In fact the licenses were so expensive it forced a few companies out of business thereby putting people out of employment, and this is only one industry of many that has been affected.

[JustGav]

Blair a war crimimal? Lol. No, more like a hero, yea he made mistakes but the whole point is that he is elected to make decisions based on the information he has, and for the good of the country. I dont think he should be penalised for that. Yeah its a sorry state, but what is seven years in the scheme of things? Would you rather not try and suppress terrorism, than wait till it comes onto your shores? Brave soldiers, and support staff are out there fighting for us to help keep us safe, and becuase they are professionals. It's a long term battle, but surely one worth fighting? Terrorism and anti americanism didnt suddenly spring into life because we and the US invaded iraq and afghanistan, its been around and brewing at getting worse for ages. Even hundreds of years

 

Okay, hero?? By your own words he made mistakes... and you saying he shouldn't be penalised?? They were his mistakes...

 

Answer this one question then 'Why do YOU think we invade Iraq'...bear in mind a few years previous we supplied them with money and arms.

 

Disclaimer : Not getting arsey, I do enjoy a good debate

[Carl_S]

3 was only one of the companies that got a license, however where did all the money go and it was a silly large amount... Don't recall it going into the people. In fact the licenses were so expensive it forced a few companies out of business thereby putting people out of employment, and this is only one industry of many that has been affected.

 

interesting. as you say, sounds very illuminati..

 

Good points Gazboy, it's a sorry, sorry state of affairs

 

A mate of mine sent me this yesterday, and it just about sums it up for me.

 

 

>>>

 

Does anyone believe that New Labour ever existed, anymore ? Class envy is still the principle driving force behind every decision.

 

Hmm. Don't think so.

 

We have had to endure the systematic distruction of all we hold dear over the past ten years and for what? So that Socialists can control our every move.

 

WTF?

 

We no longer have any decent schools and those that still try and provide an education are undergoing another attempt to destroy them.

 

Bit negative, no?

 

The NHS, which for thirty years has been bankrupt, has ceased to be a place where the primary function is care of the sick and is just a souce of employment for those unable to get a job doing anything else.

 

Riight. Sorry. Don't agree with this. Yes our NHS has lost loads of money in overegulation, and its far from perfect, but still its free. Show me other free healthcare systems around the world?

 

The police force at the top is riddled with politically motivated activists that think the job is about making criminals part of society rather than catching them. This has meant that honest hard working coppers no longer have any incilination to do the right thing for fear of being seen as hostile to the community.

 

There was institututional rascim in many parts of society, from football to the legal proffession. The police force, has been crippled with paperwork, as has the NHS. Labour is working to rectify this, but as for polictical correctness crippling the police force? I think it was needed, to redress the balance. Obviously it can get out of hand, eg banning xmas celebration, and I feel a lot of ethnic minorty questionaires either should not exist, or could be done better.

 

You cannot speak about any section of society that causes incitement to violence and problems for fear of being thrown in jail.

 

Bit extreme. But I hear what you are saying. It's right to say what you feel is right, what is decent etc. Just how you go about doing it. A night of voicing your attitues about radical islam after 10 pints of stella, may not be the best way forward.

 

You can be locked up for weeks at a time without charge for no reason whatsoever.

 

Lol. I think terror suspects should be locked and detain for a few weeks without charge. We have seen what damage terrorism can cause and should not tolerate it. But there is a small balance to be struck.

 

If you criticise unfetered immigration you are a racist.

 

Its true, you get that feeling. I agree, but we need to talk about this openly, becuase its a massive issue. Immigration can be positive and negative. Unfettered imigration, is really only going to be negative.

 

If you criticise the damage caused by EU integration you are a bigot.

 

What does bigot mean? That like a hypocrite? Why would you be a bigot for that? Surely its ok to talk about damage and the good of EU membership?

 

If you work in the public sector you get to retire early, mostly with a final salary pension.

 

I don't know much about this. Maybe it's cushier in a public sector job, but surely earning potential is higher in private sector?

 

If you work in the private sector you have to flog your guts out for up to seven years longer with a money purchase pension.

 

If you do have a private pension large amonuts of money that goes into it gets stolen by the Chancellor to pay for projects that noone cares about, largely benefitting the workshy.

 

Some Workshy, need projects and some support to get them back working again. You need to spend a little. Other workshys, need to prove that they can't work or get benefits removed. ITs a very delicate thing, and is not so clear cut as you may like to think.

 

1.5 million unemployed with 3 million on incapacity benefit, no longer means 4.5 million unemployed.

 

Yeah agreed, the figures are bad. And people are on the take. But this is being address by our government.

 

Tax is so exhorbitent that most people can no longer afford to pay it without resorting to debt.

 

People tend to spend more money than they have these days. You can't blame it all on tax.

 

If you are a rich foreigner (preferably one that donates to the Labour Party) you can do what you like.

 

Didn't Gordon Brown mention something last budget about non domicaled tax status being clamped down on? You know in the budget where he raised inheritance tax threshold.

 

If you are a working class Brit , you cant do anything without someone either presenting you with a bill or spouting petty rules at you.

 

Can you use the loo withought someone spouting rules at you? I dont happen to me, what did you do to get so many rules spouted at you?

 

The elctoral system is adjudged to be as corrupt as some third world republics due to gerrymandering and illegal practices in both the local and Scottish elections.

 

Oh, ok. The scottish election was a shambles becuase it was designed wrongly, and by eggheads, and not people who had their feet on the ground. Thats why so many votes were wasted.

But widespread corruption in the voting system in the uk? I think not. Where is your proof?

 

Add the Human Rights' Act, The European Constitution, The Iraq war, Afghanistan, Kosovo, the dodgy dossier, the pointless ban on foxhunting, Death of Michael Kelly, Bernie Ecclestone, Peter Hain, Mandelson (Twice) ..... et al

 

Foxhunting. It's nasty. But to be honest I can't really see a need to ban it. Its a tradition and a sport. Dody dossier, yeah that was a nasty period in time. Michael kelly commited sucidie cos of the pressure of a job, he was not murdered. Mandelson. Yeah he's greasy, but he helped modernise the labour party.

 

Can anyone tell me, with a straight face that Britain has not been damaged in a way that it will take decades to repair?

 

Yea, I can. Yes there as issues that take long time to sort out. But thats so of any party in goverment. Things aren't perfect, and they never will be.

 

All of you that can, do yourselves a big favour and leave Britain. I did and i will never return.

 

You left this great country? Sad. But don't suprise me one bit based on what you said.

 

Let them try and govern what's left when we have all gone and there is noone left to do the work

 

I doubt everyone will take your lead and leave. Yeah its not easy here all the time. But its worth fighting for, and sticking around.

 

I have never voted and never will under the current system, for a number of reasons (in reverse order of importance):

 

3) We don't have real proportional representation. I live in a constituency with a consistent 5,000-10,000 majority so my 1 puny vote does not make a jot of difference (oh - and if anyone comes with the "...if everybody thought like that...." line, then the answer is "yes. If everybody thought like that then of course I would start voting, because my vote WOULD make a difference." Don't expect that ever to happen, though!).

 

I dont believe in PR, yes your vote may not count as such. But in reality. If enough people vote like you do, then it will.

 

2) As mentioned before, they're all pretty much the same - they say what they want to get votes and then do whatever the hell they like when they get in anyhow, so you don't really know what you're voting for. I had this idea where an independent body would actually assess how well an incumbent government had met their pre-election promises during the preceeding term. Any shortfall would be converted into a corresponding penalty in the following election (votes/seats taken off or something).

 

Oooo nice idea. Would kind of like too see this happen.

 

1) I am not qualified to vote! I consider myself pretty up-to-date with current affairs, a reasonably intelligent (haha!), well-read (bwahahahaha!) person. But still, am I really qualified to know whether it's best to invade Iraq or not? Am I qualified to know whether we should join the Euro? NO. Of course not. I am not privvy to all the information that would be needed to make the right decision. I've no idea of all the political or economic ramifications of joining the Euro. I've no idea what the effect on the UK economy dissing the US by not supporting their military activity would have. So I can't possibly decide what's best for the country!

 

Very good point. You dont have to be perfect to vote though. You have that right. And its a shame if you dont use it. Just base it on what every knowledge you have. Even base it on intinct. Surely you can look into a guys eyes, and tell a bit what they are about? Or see how they act and behave on TV? But I take your point.

[Nick]

Carl_S - I think you're getting confused between "3" the company and "3G" the 3rd generation standard.

 

Those licenses really helped to stuff up the market, a big mistake for all involved.

[michael]

That green text hurts my eyes, can I blame labour for that or is it the green party?

[michael]

Those licenses really helped to stuff up the market, a big mistake for all involved.

 

All involved? Didn't the government make an absolute fortune out of it?

[JustGav]

All involved? Didn't the government make an absolute fortune out of it?

 

Funny that isn't it? Capitalism at it's finest... Those that do the hard work get made redundant and those that go to golf make a fortune....

 

And no I wasn't involved with the 3G licenses, but I do know people who were involved.

[Gazboy]

This has to be a wind up.

[JustGav]

This has to be a wind up.

 

Almost feels like a labour recruitment campaign

 

Got a long struggle on his hands if he thinks he will convince me

[CJ]

This has to be a wind up.

 

Again! I wonder what the next Carl_S thread will be? He has done religion and politics, so what other subject will help feed his need?

[Snooze]

Again! I wonder what the next Carl_S thread will be? He has done religion and politics, so what other subject will help feed his need?

 

I think the next one will be an in-depth look at the comparison between a parallel and a sequential twin turbo set-up on a 2JZ, with a technical how-to pictorial guide for making the change.......

 

 

 

......or maybe something less useful.