Shisha Bar and smoking ban

[Darren-K]

saboteur ,

am i right when i say that smoking Shisha has been going on for over a thousand years ?

I dont smoke either but i think the smoking ban should def take into account peoples cultures,

I mean,would the burning of joss sticks and incense in churches and religous places of worship fall under the ban ?

 

The Uk government is hypocritical.

[Scoboblio]

Living healthy you say? Do you know the effects that alcahol has on your liver? Do you know that britain is internationally known for binge drinking? It's practically the capital of the world for this shit... What has the government done about this?

 

Of course I do, I'm not bloody stupid . A drinking ban will never get through - the smoking ban did because it had (albiet possibly limited) public support.

 

I'm confused by your tone though, are you agreeing with me, or arguing with me?

[saboteur]

Keep it up.... and I'll ban you from the discussion. Be mature about it. And anymore swearing in the public section from the forum will result in an infraction. Thanks.

 

"I hope your not going to pull the boring "we are the victims, we're being singled out" rubbish? "

 

Yes well you seemed to have missed a post. I'm not here to swear or anything, just put my point accross as I have a little knowledge on the topic.

[CJ]

How do you mean mate? That was only meant for him, not anyone else. IF you read his posts on this thread then his position seems crystal clear.

 

I read his posts and didn't think any of them warranted that kind of response. By implying he went out to bash Muslims, you implied he was a racist. Or at least that's the way I read it.

[saboteur]

saboteur ,

am i right when i say that smoking Shisha has been going on for over a thousand years ?

I dont smoke either but i think the smoking ban should def take into account peoples cultures,

I mean,would the burning of joss sticks and incense in churches and religous places of worship fall under the ban ?

 

The Uk government is hypocritical.

 

Absolutely Darren. Smoking hookah pipe is one of the oldest traditions. It was popularised in the wizard of oz. Shisha (which is the flavoured tobacco stuff) is a more recent invention. But the hookah pipes and smoking tobacco from it is thousands of years old....

 

And I agree with you about the incense etc... double standards eh?

[saboteur]

Of course I do, I'm not bloody stupid . A drinking ban will never get through - the smoking ban did because it had (albiet possibly limited) public support.

 

I'm confused by your tone though, are you agreeing with me, or arguing with me?

 

Not arguing mate... but just saying that if the government really wanted healthier britain the binge drinking should definately be at the top of their list also!

[jamesmark]

You didnt want a debate, you simply wanted to ridicule. Read your post back again!

 

If someone has a valid point to put forward then I'm all ears, if not, then go and have a gentle w@nk, or go muslim bashing or whatever it is you do.

 

I did want a debate, I am very tolerant (sp) for other cultures but I cannot be doing with a ban for some and not others regardless of race or cult following. However since I have clearly caused you some distress I apologise.

 

The fact that you decided to bring being a Muslim into it when I cleary never just shows me that my statement was true.

 

Granted it has not been investigated to see if it is harmful so till then it is up in the air. However it will not take too long to find out if it is as most things nowadays carry a health warning or cause cancer.

 

"I hope your not going to pull the boring "we are the victims, we're being singled out" rubbish? "

 

Yes well you seemed to have missed a post. I'm not here to swear or anything, just put my point accross as I have a little knowledge on the topic.

 

 

My statement was not addressed to anyone or any culture in particular.

[saboteur]

I am not sure how your comment (highlighted above) works. They (the government) have banned public smoking and therefore are denying themselves revenue.

 

Well see this is a more complicated issue. I am told that the costs endured due to lung cancer on the NHS and private medical healthcare over-rides the revenue from tobacco tax. I could be wrong about this though. If this is so, then if you think about it, smoking cigs is very addictive so anyone can see that people will remain buying cigs and they can cut some costs on the NHS. So it could be the optimum solution for them!

[CJ]

saboteur ,

am i right when i say that smoking Shisha has been going on for over a thousand years ?

I dont smoke either but i think the smoking ban should def take into account peoples cultures,

I mean,would the burning of joss sticks and incense in churches and religous places of worship fall under the ban ?

 

The Uk government is hypocritical.

 

We have drank alcohol in the UK for many years. Under your reasoning I should therefore be allowed to do so in any other country even if it is against the law. Correct?

[Guest CoolsBlue]

who cares, a few places in northants still have it...

[CJ]

Well see this is a more complicated issue. I am told that the costs endured due to lung cancer on the NHS and private medical healthcare over-rides the revenue from tobacco tax. I could be wrong about this though. If this is so, then if you think about it, smoking cigs is very addictive so anyone can see that people will remain buying cigs and they can cut some costs on the NHS. So it could be the optimum solution for them!

 

Personally, I very much doubt that the cost to the government is greater than the revenue brought in.

[n boost]

I am thinking that some of people are coming forward as racists/stereotypical.

Why does religion have to do anything with this ban.

some people need to grow up/act there age and discuss this like adults and have a go at each other.

And by the way i think these bans are wrong simply because the Gov't decided(who suck). Our rights are being taken away from us and we are being told what to do.

[boombastictiger]

Rastafarians see it as their cultural and religious right to smoke ganja yet this is against the law. No allowance is made for them

 

There is a pub near me in the Cotswolds, that has been selling clay pipes and different blended tabbacos for over 200 years and people travel from miles around to enjoy their wares. They still sell the stuff but their customers have to consume it off the premises because that is the law.

 

No doubt however, with our caring sharing "lets embrace all things diverse and multicultural" Government, some allowance will be made after a legal challenge so that 0.000000000000001% of the populace can go on to enjoy something because they see it as their cultural right, but sod everyone else eh?

 

I dont get what is wrong with these idiots....people who go to shisha cafes are mixed, yea the majority are of asian/arab/black origin, but there are plenty of white people aswell, and religion has nothing to do with it customers are Muslim christian hindu u name they go there..., i am good friends with owners of 3 of what were the best places to smoke shisha in london, and thier customers were totally mixed.....once or twice a week you would have belly dancers come in you regularly see your friends in a non hostile environment... only 1 of them places survive at the moment but dont think for long...

 

ALot of the cafes have thier loyal customers that make up the majority, just like you have in pubs...

 

I think moderators should start editing posts and getting people to cut religion out of it...Does the pub have something to do with christianity? yea theres always gonna be people who bring religion into it muslim or not, but its wrong.. i think everyone with a brain can see its clear that its a tradition and cultural issue not religious...

 

The issue is based for the people living in england who actually smoke it and are affected by it...Theres always gonna be them clowns who discriminate people by the colour of their skin and the building they go to pray in, but they should be dealt with...Smoking ciggs affects almost everyone as smoke gets blown in thier face etc at clubs pubs wherever, so anyone can comment...shisha only affects people who smoke it, no one else around in clubs or places... So if people dont understand why others who smoke shisha are upset, yet have never smoked it themselves, they should not really comment...

[saboteur]

I did want a debate, I am very tolerant (sp) for other cultures but I cannot be doing with a ban for some and not others regardless of race or cult following. However since I have clearly caused you some distress I apologise.

 

The fact that you decided to bring being a Muslim into it when I cleary never just shows me that my statement was true.

 

Granted it has not been investigated to see if it is harmful so till then it is up in the air. However it will not take too long to find out if it is as most things nowadays carry a health warning or cause cancer.

 

Thanks for that. I too appologise for saying those things...

I just get this sort of thing all the time, and in most cases it is mischevious individuals that just want a fight (or argument).

 

"I cannot be doing with a ban for some and not others regardless of race or cult following."

 

I would have agreed with this if people carried little hookah pipes with them and smoked them in resturants, pubs, bars etc.. but as shisha smoking is EXCLUSIVELY done in shisha bars then that argument isn't valid for me. You know?

[Holden1989]

saboteur ,

am i right when i say that smoking Shisha has been going on for over a thousand years ?

I dont smoke either but i think the smoking ban should def take into account peoples cultures,

I mean,would the burning of joss sticks and incense in churches and religous places of worship fall under the ban ?

 

The Uk government is hypocritical.

 

yes but some off englands cultures such as hunting have been banned also, and that has been going on for hundreds of years,

 

it doesnt matter how long something been going on, if they want it theyl ban it, tbh i agree with the smoking ban, i work in bars/ pubs and its so much nicer now, as for the topic in discussion, i wouldnt like to comment on it, i dont no much about it so its not my place

[Jake]

terrorist = muslim has been conditioned in the british publics mind.

Is that not pretty much correct then?

Weren't all the terrorist attacks of recent times carried out by muslims? (911, 7/7, the attempted train bombings, Glasgow airport, etc)

[michael]

PEOPLE ONLY GO TO SHISHA CAFES TO SMOKE SHISHA..., thats what alot of people on here dont understand and most of people in general...

 

FYI I nearly went into this very Shisha Bar just before Christmas and I only wanted a spot of lunch, not some octopus thing blowing smoke on me.

 

Its like going to a pub, the main thing is the drinks and the atmosphere....

 

Or in many cases some great food and a drink or two.

 

...You DONT go into a shisha cafe unless you want to smoke shisha.., simple as....its like me walking into a pub and then complaining that people are drinking...its stupid and would make me look like and idiot...

 

I can go into a pub and have a sandwich without feeling the need to drink alcohol, I suspect Shisha people can go into their favourite places and smoke tobacco free varieties without being subjected to these laws? Afterall you can still cook chicken on a charcoal grill in Nandos, that makes smoke flavoured with their sauces and isn't banned as yet.

 

 

...the government and people in general dont realise that people go to smoke shisha and not for anything else, the drinks and food they get are just extra....

 

Yet they serve food, drink and other items... it might be an "extra" but you keep saying people only go to these places to smoke Shisha when that clearly isn't the case. If that's all they supplied to the public then your ranting might have a point but basically it's no different to a restaurant selling cigars is it?

 

I can understand if it was a restaurant or something who were selling shisha, thats fair enough...but a SHISHA cafe only sells shisha, so dont go in unless you want to smoke otherwise it aint for you...

 

So some of the the ones in the UK *only* do this shisha stuff and don't sell food and drink then?

 

So many shisha cafes have closed now, because no one is gonna smoke outside in this weather...

 

People go outside to smoke cigarettes now

 

but they have really reduced alot of peoples social lives....theres nothing else to do that can compete on a social level....alot of the people who go to shisha cafes dont drink, so your not gonna find them in bars or pubs...and theres only so much clubbing you can do.....shisha clubs were open until all hours of the morning...thats pretty much all gone..

 

So Shisha lovers can't have a good conversation over a glass of refreshing non-alcoholic beverage then?

 

Odd bunch, just as well they are getting banned!

[Class One]

Jake, Christmas is over now isn't it? Time for an Av change?

[jamesmark]

The issue is based for the people living in england who actually smoke it and are affected by it...Smoking ciggs affects almost everyone as smoke gets blown in thier face etc at clubs pubs wherever, so anyone can comment...shisha only affects people who smoke it, no one else around in clubs or places... So if people dont understand why others who smoke shisha are upset, yet have never smoked it themselves, they should not really comment...

 

Well then all of should not comment and this thread should be deleted. It has not be researched so how can you claim that it does not affect people who do not smoke it? Cigarettes are more dangerous to passive smokers, the same could be said for people that visit these establisments with friends and passive smoke Shisha.

[saboteur]

Is that not pretty much correct then?

Weren't all the terrorist attacks of recent times carried out by muslims? (911, 7/7, the attempted train bombings, Glasgow airport, etc)

 

Terrorism has absolutely NO place in islam... it has absolutely NOTHING to do with the religion itself. The sooner this message is out the better.

[Darren-K]

I am thinking that some of people are coming forward as racists/stereotypical.

Why does religion have to do anything with this ban.

some people need to grow up/act there age and discuss this like adults and have a go at each other.

And by the way i think these bans are wrong simply because the Gov't decided(who suck). Our rights are being taken away from us and we are being told what to do.

 

agreed,

on a footnote of that N boost,In Blackpool drinking booze in the street has been banned for about 4 or 5 years now,but all summer you can see people walking down the street carrying cans of Lager and no-one is every arrested for it,

What makes any country great is some Liberty after all,but banning all kinds of smoke in all places is wrong,

maybe certain places should be allowed to have smoking but under licence.

[michael]

Is that not pretty much correct then?

Weren't all the terrorist attacks of recent times carried out by muslims? (911, 7/7, the attempted train bombings, Glasgow airport, etc)

 

I thought so, it's the muslim = terrorist one that's flawed isn't it?

[boombastictiger]

yes but some off englands cultures such as hunting have been banned also, and that has been going on for hundreds of years,

 

it doesnt matter how long something been going on, if they want it theyl ban it, tbh i agree with the smoking ban, i work in bars/ pubs and its so much nicer now, as for the topic in discussion, i wouldnt like to comment on it, i dont no much about it so its not my place

 

see thats what you call commen sense " i dont no much about it so its not my place"

 

Alot of people are commenting about it on here without even understanding what it is...I used to work in a a club, (Oceana kingston) a few years ago and i used to come home drenched in smoke, and i didnt even smoke...public places such as clubs, pubs etc i agree smoking ban should be enforced its much better,, But a shisha cafe is purely a cafe to smoke shisha, and its not as if its 1 or 2 cafes, thers hundreds, atleast 30-40 down edgware road alone...Now most have gone out of business...

[Tourniquet]

Is that not pretty much correct then?

Weren't all the terrorist attacks of recent times carried out by muslims? (911, 7/7, the attempted train bombings, Glasgow airport, etc)

 

 

Yes they were. That's why the feelings people have for them are so. I heard an Irish stand up say that he adores Muslims now - now they're the terrorists.

 

The only reason race/religion was brought into this discussion is because Sab brought it in if you read back a few pages.

[Class One]

Terrorism has absolutely NO place in islam... it has absolutely NOTHING to do with the religion itself. The sooner this message is out the better.

 

I agree with you. In fact I think the vast majority would. So don't you think that the Muslim Council of Great Britain and all Imans and mosques should be doing their bit to educate and spread the word? Tolerance and understanding is a two way street you know.

 

Anyway we digress off topic. Smokers view smoking as their basic human/cultural right. The Government view smoking as a threat to public health. Government wins. They nearly always do.