Al Massey Posted January 12, 2008 Share Posted January 12, 2008 christians dont follow god as such they all follow a false idol" - WRONG i suggest you then come and have a look in a Greek christian Orthodox church(Bayswater-Moscow street), the picture of God is right at the top of the church. so the greeks know what god looks like? considering their believes and their history believe in completly different things they have many gods and mythological creatures So what do you do? I'll let my kids go without, cos after all I really don't wan't to be judged...in years to come! ! well if you didnt you would knowingly be killing them which is against the commandments Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darren-K Posted January 12, 2008 Share Posted January 12, 2008 Difficult questions can sometimes have easy answers eh? no,its a Paradox, The fact that i know how the universe was created and yet i still shape my life around what is a Sin and what isnt means i must believe in something., Ive been told tonite that no-one here likes me,however im still here and im hoping to rectify my wrongs cos its the right thing to do, Inner peace brings us closer to god so they say,im just uncomfortable with the actual word god and all it means, so i still dont know. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carl_S Posted January 12, 2008 Author Share Posted January 12, 2008 so the young not following religion in this country has caused all the trouble has it. not poor parenting and strickter school dicapline some people say its cos of no religion. others becuase no caning. I think its an illusion to say things are getting worse, specially as far as kids are concerned. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lbm Posted January 12, 2008 Share Posted January 12, 2008 well if you didnt you would knowingly be killing them which is against the commandments If I had to kill someone to get the last bit of food, what happens then? Btw the person I'm killing as it were needed it for his kids, but there wasn't enough? I don't want to knowingly starve my kids you see Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kranz Posted January 12, 2008 Share Posted January 12, 2008 Ive been told tonite that no-one here likes me Darren........ God still likes you Sorry, I had to Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darren-K Posted January 12, 2008 Share Posted January 12, 2008 Darren........ God still likes you Sorry, I had to do you mean tbourner likes me ? seriously tho,i guess i must believe in God., o m g !! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max Headroom Posted January 12, 2008 Share Posted January 12, 2008 Ive been told tonite that no-one here likes me,however im still here and im hoping to rectify my wrongs cos its the right thing to do, I like you And what if we are already in Hell!! What if there is nothing else? when animals die, do they go to heaven? And what about the Buddists whose belief is in reincarnation, are they wrong? Or the JWs who believe only 492000 will go to heavan, or the Mormons who believe there are 3 planets we ascend to, or the Scientologists who believe we are from aliens? If there is one God why is he using so many different ways to speak to us? Oh if you don't believe in God, how can you go to Hell!! It doesnt exist Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carl_S Posted January 12, 2008 Author Share Posted January 12, 2008 no,its a Paradox, The fact that i know how the universe was created and yet i still shape my life around what is a Sin and what isnt means i must believe in something., Ive been told tonite that no-one here likes me,however im still here and im hoping to rectify my wrongs cos its the right thing to do, Inner peace brings us closer to god so they say,im just uncomfortable with the actual word god and all it means, so i still dont know. You used to go to church then Darren? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darren-K Posted January 12, 2008 Share Posted January 12, 2008 You used to go to church then Darren? No ,ive never been to church except for a funeral - however last year one of them chaps who stand in the street gave me one of those pamphlets about Jesus etc and whilst he was talking to me in the street i was thinking all the time "yeh yeh yeh" but when i got back to work i read it word for word as i kept thinking about him,and the time he spent dedicating his time to do what he was doing,and i felt obliged to read the whole thing, when i did i found it quite a good read and it rang a few bells in my head. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darren-K Posted January 12, 2008 Share Posted January 12, 2008 I like you And what if we are already in Hell!! What if there is nothing else? when animals die, do they go to heaven? And what about the Buddists whose belief is in reincarnation, are they wrong? Or the JWs who believe only 492000 will go to heavan, or the Mormons who believe there are 3 planets we ascend to, or the Scientologists who believe we are from aliens? If there is one God why is he using so many different ways to speak to us? Oh if you don't believe in God, how can you go to Hell!! It doesnt exist Thanks Max,i think your a great person, thank you for that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carl_S Posted January 12, 2008 Author Share Posted January 12, 2008 No ,ive never been to church except for a funeral - however last year one of them chaps who stand in the street gave me one of those pamphlets about Jesus etc and whilst he was talking to me in the street i was thinking all the time "yeh yeh yeh" but when i got back to work i read it word for word as i kept thinking about him,and the time he spent dedicating his time to do what he was doing,and i felt obliged to read the whole thing, when i did i found it quite a good read and it rang a few bells in my head. Yeah, I got a lot of respect for people that follow a religon sincerely and dedicate their lives to it. I dont think there is one bad or evil religion in the world. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tbourner Posted January 12, 2008 Share Posted January 12, 2008 no,its a Paradox, The fact that i know how the universe was created and yet i still shape my life around what is a Sin and what isnt means i must believe in something. Interesting. Does following a moral code mean you believe? Why don't we all just take what we want by whatever means necessary? Part of the reason I don't is the law of the land, but would people do it if there was no law? I'm sure some would, don't we have a natural moral compass though? Where does that natural instinct to know right from wrong come from? God? It can't be instinct to think of others and have empathy, what good is that to our personal survival at the most basic level? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darren-K Posted January 13, 2008 Share Posted January 13, 2008 well im going to read up more on the subject Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
imi Posted January 13, 2008 Share Posted January 13, 2008 Not completely forbidden depending on whose interpretation... Definitions of Jihad This is the same as anything else, in that books of any sort are subject to anyone's interpretation. This seems to differ greatly even with people of the same faith. I think i could spend years of my life reading on different faiths & still be none the wiser as to wether their is a god. The wikipedia definition isn't the best that i have seen, however even here nowhere does it say that it is allowed to to do jihad (struggle against) people of different faiths cause they are of a different faith than Islam. In order to protect oneself in self-defence / absolutely, any sane person wouldn't see a problem with that at all. I agree that book(s) are subject to multiple interpretations, however I rather focus my attention on ONE book that is treated as the word of God by over 20% of the worlds population that hasn't changed over 1400 + years and investigate that further. In any case, the choice is yours and yes, some people do spend a lifetime but atleast they did make the effort. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
imi Posted January 13, 2008 Share Posted January 13, 2008 I like you And what if we are already in Hell!! What if there is nothing else? when animals die, do they go to heaven? And what about the Buddists whose belief is in reincarnation, are they wrong? Or the JWs who believe only 492000 will go to heavan, or the Mormons who believe there are 3 planets we ascend to, or the Scientologists who believe we are from aliens? If there is one God why is he using so many different ways to speak to us? /> We (muslims) believe that this life is a TEST. The Test is for Humans and humans alone as we are the only creation that possess FREE WILL. every other creation does NOT possess this and hence is not being TESTED. We do NOT believe in Re-incarnation into this world...however we do believe in life after death...so the soul is reincarnated but in the hereafter - not again in this world. As to why the different ways to communicate....Allah / God has always communicated to His Best (human) creation through messengers (Prophets) such as Moses (Taurah), Jesus (Injeel - original bible) zabuir and finally the Quran. There were other revelations however these are the 4 that are explicitly named in the Quran. The predecessors to the Quran were revelations targeting a specific nation / people....for example the Taurah through Moses was the word of Allah for he Jews at that time......the Bible for the Christians at that time through Jesus (pbuh) and finally the Quran which was revealed THROUGH Prophet Muhammed (pbuh) for ALL HUMANS for ALL TIME as this is the FINAL revelation delivered through Mohammed (pbuh) who is the seal of the Prophets. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fastisnice Posted January 13, 2008 Share Posted January 13, 2008 We (muslims) believe that this life is a TEST. The Test is for Humans and humans alone as we are the only creation that possess FREE WILL. every other creation does NOT possess this and hence is not being TESTED. We do NOT believe in Re-incarnation into this world...however we do believe in life after death...so the soul is reincarnated but in the hereafter - not again in this world. As to why the different ways to communicate....Allah / God has always communicated to His Best (human) creation through messengers (Prophets) such as Moses (Taurah), Jesus (Injeel - original bible) zabuir and finally the Quran. There were other revelations however these are the 4 that are explicitly named in the Quran. The predecessors to the Quran were revelations targeting a specific nation / people....for example the Taurah through Moses was the word of Allah for he Jews at that time......the Bible for the Christians at that time through Jesus (pbuh) and finally the Quran which was revealed THROUGH Prophet Muhammed (pbuh) for ALL HUMANS for ALL TIME as this is the FINAL revelation delivered through Mohammed (pbuh) who is the seal of the Prophets. We believe in exactly the same things (Greek christian orthodox) Someone mentioned about Greeks believing in greek mythology! You talking about thousand years ago because for the past 3000years our official religion is " Christian orthodox ". No its not Greeks know what God looks like, all Orthodox Christian churches have the figure of God on the top of the church. Yes stricter Parenting in this country is also part of childrens's problems these days but combine stricter parenting with some sort of belief and you have a much better society...And it does work because this is how i grew up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Al Massey Posted January 13, 2008 Share Posted January 13, 2008 so coz i never believed in god i was a problem child causing trouble and killing people? and animals dont have free will? how do you work that out? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max Headroom Posted January 13, 2008 Share Posted January 13, 2008 We (muslims) believe that this life is a TEST. The Test is for Humans and humans alone as we are the only creation that possess FREE WILL. every other creation does NOT possess this and hence is not being TESTED. We do NOT believe in Re-incarnation into this world...however we do believe in life after death...so the soul is reincarnated but in the hereafter - not again in this world. As to why the different ways to communicate....Allah / God has always communicated to His Best (human) creation through messengers (Prophets) such as Moses (Taurah), Jesus (Injeel - original bible) zabuir and finally the Quran. There were other revelations however these are the 4 that are explicitly named in the Quran. The predecessors to the Quran were revelations targeting a specific nation / people....for example the Taurah through Moses was the word of Allah for he Jews at that time......the Bible for the Christians at that time through Jesus (pbuh) and finally the Quran which was revealed THROUGH Prophet Muhammed (pbuh) for ALL HUMANS for ALL TIME as this is the FINAL revelation delivered through Mohammed (pbuh) who is the seal of the Prophets. So Buddists are wrong then for believing they are right? What if they are right and we are reincarnated, it is their belief. As to God communicating with us, what I meant was if there was only one god, why do we need so many different ways to worship him!! And what of early man with his pagan festivals, are his gods real? And what of the Quran, you may believe it is for all humans for all time, but its not for me. Yet there are those who are willing by force to make me adopt the muslim faith, where is the free will there? God may well exist but he is hiding well behind those who profess to serve him Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
imi Posted January 13, 2008 Share Posted January 13, 2008 So Buddists are wrong then for believing they are right? What if they are right and we are reincarnated, it is their belief. As to God communicating with us, what I meant was if there was only one god, why do we need so many different ways to worship him!! And what of early man with his pagan festivals, are his gods real? And what of the Quran, you may believe it is for all humans for all time, but its not for me. Yet there are those who are willing by force to make me adopt the muslim faith, where is the free will there? God may well exist but he is hiding well behind those who profess to serve him The information is out there for you to read up on....the choice is yours and yours alone. No one can and no one should force you to believe in anything. I believe in the Quran, that is my choice and I choose the ways that are stipulated in this Holy Book. Others may have different ways to worship....It is good for me to be aware of those, but I choose to follow the Quran. Hope that helps. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CJ Posted January 13, 2008 Share Posted January 13, 2008 How do you know it's in the original form? I was thinking that too. Imi, you may have missed this? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BASHTHEBISHOP Posted January 13, 2008 Share Posted January 13, 2008 The information is out there for you to read up on....the choice is yours and yours alone. No one can and no one should force you to believe in anything. I believe in the Quran, that is my choice and I choose the ways that are stipulated in this Holy Book. Others may have different ways to worship....It is good for me to be aware of those, but I choose to follow the Quran. Hope that helps. Now when you say you chose were you bought up within that faith? This is something yet again i am unsure of what i think to it? Personally i feel all children should be made aware of all different faiths & their beleives but not pushed to 'practice' in any. This could obviously be difficult for any adults that are already devout christians/mulsims etc to not enforce their faith upon their children? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
imi Posted January 13, 2008 Share Posted January 13, 2008 Now when you say you chose were you bought up within that faith? This is something yet again i am unsure of what i think to it? Personally i feel all children should be made aware of all different faiths & their beleives but not pushed to 'practice' in any. This could obviously be difficult for any adults that are already devout christians/mulsims etc to not enforce their faith upon their children? At the end of the day we are adults and its OUR choice what path if any we choose to follow, so I dont see this as a problem. We seem to be deviating from the thread topic. But more than happy to carry on with the discussion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SUPRASUZUKI Posted January 13, 2008 Share Posted January 13, 2008 I agree that book(s) are subject to multiple interpretations, however I rather focus my attention on ONE book that is treated as the word of God by over 20% of the worlds population that hasn't changed over 1400 + years How do you know it hasn't changed? It does seem like everybody else's books have changed (are wrong?) but not yours. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
imi Posted January 13, 2008 Share Posted January 13, 2008 How do you know it hasn't changed? It does seem like everybody else's books have changed (are wrong?) but not yours. I can show you how the Bible as an example has changed. Can you show me how the Quran has changed? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SUPRASUZUKI Posted January 13, 2008 Share Posted January 13, 2008 You made the statement that your book hadn't changed. The burden of proof lies with you. I have no idea re the bible changing or not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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