Ryan.G Posted January 7, 2008 Share Posted January 7, 2008 Agreed - the only difference is heat, surely. Was everything else the same on the dyno - temps/humidity etc? Ian do you have any EMU base maps of any sort for TTC with 256i/264e cams? Here's a thread of my thoughts on TTC (non mapped) from many moons ago... http://www.mkivsupra.net/vbb/showthread.php?t=24280&highlight=ttc Intake temps both the same just checked logs. Have you seen the size of the fan at SRR? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tricky-Ricky Posted January 7, 2008 Share Posted January 7, 2008 Its quite surprising just how much changes you can make to the fuelling and timing in TTC mode, the ECU runs things way to rich apart from spool up point and after 1.1 BAR, which has a lot to do with TTC on std ECU makes things a bit disappointing, also some of the ways of achieving TTC leave things a little hit and miss. I am also convinced that there is a little more to be made from getting rid of EGCV and IACV control butterfly's completely, i have some spare pipework which i may get around to removing this from at some point, and give it a try. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tricky-Ricky Posted January 7, 2008 Share Posted January 7, 2008 Intake temps both the same just checked logs. Have you seen the size of the fan at SRR? LOL one of the few i have seen that requires it to be firmly anchored to stop it taking excursions:D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ian C Posted January 7, 2008 Share Posted January 7, 2008 Agreed Also Ian if you want to see the timing map just let me know via e-mail. As im sure some BPU owners with a EMB or EMU might like to try it. Also if you have some datalogs of TTC and Seq have a look at the INJ Duty on both to see if they are the same as i seriously found the TTC to flow more at Top end. I was abit shocked to find it TBH. Do you agree with my wild theorising with regards to cylinder temps though I haven't got enough accurate info in old datalogs to get anything conclusive I'm afraid. What I do know is that you could put on 8deg of timing at 0.8bar, when under 4000rpm - a sizeable kick thanks to the cooler air charge coming from both turbos instead of just the one With a boost controller stopping the spike and the fuelling enrichened to cope with the cooler air down low, it was a fearsome beast indeed. It was running 11.4:1 with 76% duration on 650's at 1.2bar, 6000rpm if that gives you anything to think about -Ian Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheekymonkey Posted January 7, 2008 Author Share Posted January 7, 2008 It was running 11.4:1 with 76% duration on 650's at 1.2bar, 6000rpm if that gives you anything to think about Well I don't know about Ryan but it gives me something to dream about tonight.... bring on my own fearsome beast Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whitesupraboy2 Posted January 7, 2008 Share Posted January 7, 2008 We hear of the 1st turbo going when you up the boost to 1.2Bar. Would this reduce the risk a bit as the 1st turbo isnt taking the brunt of 0.8Bar for as long? Not technical here so just a question. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ryan.G Posted January 7, 2008 Share Posted January 7, 2008 Do you agree with my wild theorising with regards to cylinder temps though I haven't got enough accurate info in old datalogs to get anything conclusive I'm afraid. What I do know is that you could put on 8deg of timing at 0.8bar, when under 4000rpm - a sizeable kick thanks to the cooler air charge coming from both turbos instead of just the one With a boost controller stopping the spike and the fuelling enrichened to cope with the cooler air down low, it was a fearsome beast indeed. It was running 11.4:1 with 76% duration on 650's at 1.2bar, 6000rpm if that gives you anything to think about -Ian I do agree about the cylinder temps Blimey that is shifting a serious amount of air for 76% on 650cc injectors. Just looked on my datalog for my T61 and im using the same amount of fuel at 1.1bar @ 6K (11.4:1). At this point mine is making around 525bhp Ryan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
supra_surj Posted January 7, 2008 Share Posted January 7, 2008 Bit of a random question. Im running in ttc mode, full decat but with standard ecu and everything else. What steps do i need to take to run in ttc mode properly.im not that knowledgable about this. And if possible where would i get it done. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R Black Posted January 7, 2008 Share Posted January 7, 2008 Bit of a random question. Im running in ttc mode, full decat but with standard ecu and everything else. What steps do i need to take to run in ttc mode properly.im not that knowledgable about this. And if possible where would i get it done. I think a quite a few people would be interested in this, me included, seems like a halfway house between bpu & going single. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheekymonkey Posted January 7, 2008 Author Share Posted January 7, 2008 la. La la la la. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tricky-Ricky Posted January 7, 2008 Share Posted January 7, 2008 I think a quite a few people would be interested in this, me included, seems like a halfway house between bpu & going single. As said there are lots of how to's about converting to TTC, some are more reliable than others as most depend on your VSVs and pressure tank being in good condition, i prefer the more permanent method of wiring the EGCV and IACV in the fully open position, which eliminates the problem of faulty VSVs,pressure tank and actuators;) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
supra_surj Posted January 7, 2008 Share Posted January 7, 2008 When you say wire them do you mean electronic ttc? Ive done it with swapping the pipes.my question was really whats the next step? Mapping it? But i have a standard ecu. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tricky-Ricky Posted January 8, 2008 Share Posted January 8, 2008 When you say wire them do you mean electronic ttc? Ive done it with swapping the pipes.my question was really whats the next step? Mapping it? But i have a standard ecu. No i mean physically wiring the butterfly's open. as for mapping, you will need EMB or EMU at a minimum to do it properly, + a wideband lambda. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheekymonkey Posted January 8, 2008 Author Share Posted January 8, 2008 Hello Tuners On Ryan.G's advice I am going to remove the first cat and I've just bought some 650cc injectors because of the high fueling requirements of my set up (87% duty at 1.0 bar). Will I be in FPR territory at 1.2 bar, or pulsation damper bypass? I already have a Walbro 255 in the tank but apart from that it's stock fuel system. Cheers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nic Posted January 8, 2008 Share Posted January 8, 2008 James, you'll need am adjustable fuel pressure regulator, the pulsation damper bypass is not really necessary. I would also fit a new fuel filter whilst you are at it too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wez Posted January 8, 2008 Share Posted January 8, 2008 I run a stock FPR and still have the pulsation damper in place Neither are required for you current goal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheekymonkey Posted January 8, 2008 Author Share Posted January 8, 2008 James, you'll need am adjustable fuel pressure regulator, the pulsation damper bypass is not really necessary. I would also fit a new fuel filter whilst you are at it too. Neither are required for you current goal. Now, is Nic playing it safe, or is Wez on the bleeding edge? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wez Posted January 8, 2008 Share Posted January 8, 2008 I run a single walbro, stock fpr, stock filter, stock rail, stock lines and PE 650 injectors, thats my fuel setup. I am not saying an aftermarket fpr wont, if you want one make sure you get a decent one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheekymonkey Posted January 8, 2008 Author Share Posted January 8, 2008 I run a single walbro, stock fpr, stock filter, stock rail, stock lines and PE 650 injectors, thats my fuel setup. I am not saying an aftermarket fpr wont, if you want one make sure you get a decent one. Excellent. Same fuel setup as I am aiming for. Cheers guys At this rate I'll be going single except for the actual turbo itself! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dandan Posted January 8, 2008 Share Posted January 8, 2008 Ryan (I address this to you as I think you did the excel graph originally)...can you overlay the TTC plot onto the SRR dyno collection please? I just had a thought.... it would be interesting to have done this back to back without the 1st cat in place, I bet the top end gains would not be as different (ie you could maybe have run similar amounts of advance in seq mode as you did in TTC) without that 1st cat trapping so much heat and cooking everything back to the combustion chamber...hmmm. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheekymonkey Posted January 8, 2008 Author Share Posted January 8, 2008 I just had a thought.... it would be interesting to have done this back to back without the 1st cat in place, I bet the top end gains would not be as different (ie you could maybe have run similar amounts of advance in seq mode as you did in TTC) without that 1st cat trapping so much heat and cooking everything back to the combustion chamber...hmmm. Once I have removed the 1st cat I will certainly want to get a dyno reading again at some point. If it's not too much of a pain I'd be happy to pay for a little more dyno time, and if Ryan is happy to fiddle around for a bit we could probably do that comparison in the interest of science Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dandan Posted January 8, 2008 Share Posted January 8, 2008 Good man. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ryan.G Posted January 8, 2008 Share Posted January 8, 2008 I run a stock FPR and still have the pulsation damper in place Neither are required for you current goal. I run a stock FPR and still have the pulsation damper in place also I personally feel the stock item is better than most Aftermarket FPR anyway. Ryan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ian C Posted January 8, 2008 Share Posted January 8, 2008 I do agree about the cylinder temps Blimey that is shifting a serious amount of air for 76% on 650cc injectors. Just looked on my datalog for my T61 and im using the same amount of fuel at 1.1bar @ 6K (11.4:1). At this point mine is making around 525bhp Ryan Well, he *said* they were 650's I've got a good datalog line here: 6000rpm, 1.09bar boost, 71% duty, 11.56:1 afr I can email you the logs if you want I'm beginning to suspect that perhaps they were 550cc injectors?! Because I've also seen T61 equipped 650cc ones using slightly less duty cycle Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wez Posted January 8, 2008 Share Posted January 8, 2008 I'm beginning to suspect that perhaps they were 550cc injectors?! Because I've also seen T61 equipped 650cc ones using slightly less duty cycle My duty at 1bar 6000rpm is 66% on a 60-1 with 650cc injectors. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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