ardasaliah Posted January 8, 2005 Share Posted January 8, 2005 Hi folks. Toyota cannot diagnose my problem- I suggested to them that this site could help and the head mechanic asked me to post up the symptoms Start engine Car wants to stall when you step on the accelerator for a split second. Over fuelling Engine floods- cannot be restarted sometimes. Idles higher then usual Sometime idle cannot settle Runs rough UK spec car- no mods They claim to have tested sensors- TPS, 02 sensors MAF Anything else, which you think, they could try Need a list if poss Cheers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
b_have Posted January 8, 2005 Share Posted January 8, 2005 Overfueling? All the symptoms suggest underfueling IMO. Do they have a wideband AFR to check this? If it shows lean,I would change the fuel filter and clean the injectors. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ardasaliah Posted January 8, 2005 Author Share Posted January 8, 2005 thanks 'underfuelling' - ill suggest this cheers anymore ideas Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terminator Posted January 8, 2005 Share Posted January 8, 2005 Hi folks. Toyota cannot diagnose my problem- I suggested to them that this site could help and the head mechanic asked me to post up the symptoms Start engine Car wants to stall when you step on the accelerator for a split second. Over fuelling Engine floods- cannot be restarted sometimes. Idles higher then usual Sometime idle cannot settle Runs rough UK spec car- no mods They claim to have tested sensors- TPS, 02 sensors MAF Anything else, which you think, they could try Need a list if poss CheersSorry but this just about sums it up for the main dealers. A standard UK spec car and they have no idea what to do. similar thing happened to me, I pulled in to get spares and two mechanics and a work shop manager were stood around a modded MKIV, as I walked by one of the mechanics ask this bloke( Me) he does all his own maintenance on one of these. This one was dying on lift off, I suggested a few things including Idle control valve. If found out later that it was the ICV. They hade not even thought of running engine diagnostics??? So I suppose your Toyota guys have at least done that. A ECU rest would not go a miss either Might be an ICV problem Not familiar with UK's but stock BOV faults can cause similar problem on JDM cars. I think UK cars can have this problem with air leaks before the throttle butterfly. AJMHO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sharpie Posted January 8, 2005 Share Posted January 8, 2005 As per your other post - Take it to someone who knows the Soop Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ian C Posted January 9, 2005 Share Posted January 9, 2005 If it's UK spec it'll have that MAF thingy by the air filter, which means a leak anywhere along the intake system from then on will cause rough idling and a lean condition... but if it's deffo overfuelling then that wouldn't be the case. The coolant temperature sensor circuit may have gone, making the ECU think that it's on cold start all the time, that'd overfuel like a bastard. The idle speed control valve has a reputation for gumming up so removing it and filling it with a solvent like brake cleaner overnight might free it up, wouldn't hurt to try. Checking the fuel pressure is an idea, Toyota have tech tools specifically for this, if it's over 36psi static then you'd overfuel as well. Also, you can check the Ox1 pin on the diagnostics port to see if it's lean or rich. A simple multimeter job, a solid 0.75+ volts and it's running rich beyond the closed loop systems ability to compensate, anything under 0.5v and it's lean, it should be fluctuating between these figures all the time (although it takes a minute to warm up from cold, you can see this happen as it climbs from 0v). -Ian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Posted January 9, 2005 Share Posted January 9, 2005 Wow, nice one Ian. I think they'll be lost with all that though, just fitters IMO Paul Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ardasaliah Posted January 9, 2005 Author Share Posted January 9, 2005 thanks Ian i'll pass the info on As always any other ideas appreciated Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
absz Posted January 9, 2005 Share Posted January 9, 2005 i think ian should provide some training coarses for the main dealers as they are only trained on how to change filters. and normally have one guy employed as the dianostic technician who just specializes in pluging in a dianostic machine which they hope tells them want to do next. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ian C Posted January 9, 2005 Share Posted January 9, 2005 i think ian should provide some training coarses for the main dealers as they are only trained on how to change filters. and normally have one guy employed as the dianostic technician who just specializes in pluging in a dianostic machine which they hope tells them want to do next. Hahaha I'd charge them Lexus labour rates, that'd scare them I hate it when garages say "We are going to swap the x over" and charge you for the x component and then it doesn't fix it and they say "nope, didn't fix it, you owe us £256 for the bit and £150 for fitting it. Now, next thing in line is the y component..." and so on until they accidentally fix it. With a bit of brainpower and some logical thinking, plus access to some reference material helps, and things can be narrowed down reasonably quickly. Bloody garages -Ian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ardasaliah Posted January 9, 2005 Author Share Posted January 9, 2005 Just a few other symptoms to add. If you press the accelerator say half way the car would want to stall for a split second but wont. The revs would rise and hold. When you release the accelerator the revs would drop below normal idle and then the stall begins. The ECU would try to recover but it wont. Then the car won’t start say for about 3-4 hours. When engines cold and you start the car engine speed goes mad. like someone’s pressing and letting go of the accelerator PS The water temp thingys- anyone know which ones for the ECU as ones for the guage http://www.mkivsupra.net/vbb/attachment.php?attachmentid=2628 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ian C Posted January 9, 2005 Share Posted January 9, 2005 Single wire sensor is for the gauge, dual wire is for the ECU. All the hallmarks of massive overfuelling. You prod the accelerator and the revs drop before rising. You lift off and the revs drop to 400rpm or less and it struggles, sometimes catching it, sometimes stalling. Your spark plugs will be coked up by now and will need cleaning if the engine refuses to start. The engine going mad, does it rev up to about 3000rpm and drop to 2500 and then back up to 3000 and so on? About 3/4second for each change? This is a failsafe condition where the engine speed is uncontrollable by the idle system, so to avoid overrevving the ECU does some whacky stuff like cutting injectors or something (I don't know how it does it) to keep the revs down. I'd really get the Idle Speed Control Valve checked out With that rev behaviour it may well be logging a fault code by now. -Ian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ardasaliah Posted January 10, 2005 Author Share Posted January 10, 2005 Thanks very much IAN. Sorted mate. Told Toyota-they checked it and found it to be faulty. Car runs like a dream again. The annoying thing is that they disconnected my boost gauge thinking that it was causing the problems. Not to bothered though- 10min job Cheers again Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ian C Posted January 10, 2005 Share Posted January 10, 2005 I hope they didn't charge you for their time spent diagnosing the problem Glad it's sorted mate -Ian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Supragal Posted January 11, 2005 Share Posted January 11, 2005 Engine God saves the day again. Ian is not permitted to train Toyota dealers, his knowledge is all ours MMWWOOOAAHHHH Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
absz Posted January 11, 2005 Share Posted January 11, 2005 i'm going through the same trouble at the moment with mercedes, a mate had his car booked in for a misfire? after them changing a coilpack and changing the fuel injector wiring for £345+parts they now tell him that he needs a new ecu at a cost of £900+labour. after me going down there in person to demand a see the dianostic reports, they tell me that the technician who was working on the car is now on holiday and will try to get me copys of the dianostic printouts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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