The BL+PHR T61 power thread

[paul mac]

RHHP at Thor, which as far as i can tell from various threads seems to come out about the same as most other dynos estimated flywheel power.

 

without re-igniting this whole debate i dont think this quite stacks up, maybe Thor do over do the figures but i dont think it is by that much, i am not getting at Wez personally but stack up his T61 "claims" against mine, 550 fwhp with a restrictive cast manifold, 264 cams and all this at only 1.1 bar, my "claimed" 510 rwhp on a T61, ported/gas flowed head, UK spec cams, full tubular manifold and at just a tad over 1.4 bar, now i would say these figures are pretty similar given the differences in the cars, and before someone screams ECU, at wot and maximum power as long as the AFR's are right there is no gain

[Ryan.G]

With your spec Paul i would expect to see 500bhp @ fly maximum which is past my safely limit on 550cc injectors. As in order for you to just achieve 510bhp @ fly you would need to be running your 550cc injectors at 93% duty.

 

I could maybe understand your figure of 510whp on maybe 720cc injectors but with auto tranny loses you have got to hitting 630-650 at the fly with that Whp figure you have.

 

Im not having a dig or anything chap but the figures you are quoting are impossiable based on its spec. Even if you ran nitromethane you would not hit that figure as your injectors would be maxed out again.

 

But as long as your happy then that all that matters.

 

Also with a cast manifold like Wes's it will not become a restriction to around 650bhp and before then it is alot better than a tubular as all that extra stored heat allows the air molecules to travel even faster

 

Ryan

[paul mac]

With your spec Paul i would expect to see 500bhp @ fly maximum which is past my safely limit on 550cc injectors. As in order for you to just achieve 510bhp @ fly you would need to be running your 550cc injectors at 93% duty.

 

I could maybe understand your figure of 510whp on maybe 720cc injectors but with auto tranny loses you have got to hitting 630-650 at the fly with that Whp figure you have.

 

Im not having a dig or anything chap but the figures you are quoting are impossiable based on its spec. Even if you ran nitro methan you would not hit that figure as your injectors would be maxed out again.

 

But as long as your happy then that all that matters.

 

Also with a cast manifold like Wes's it will not become a restriction to around 650bhp and before then it is alot better than a tubular as all that extra stored heat allows the air molecules to travel even faster

 

Ryan

i appreciate what your saying Ryan, but regardless my car runs an AFR of 10.8/1 (AEM) at wot at 1.4 bar boost on a T61 and yes i suppose the injectors are flat out and the fuel pressure is cranked up but how would bigger injectors allow any more power without cranking up the boost further, BTW the 510 rwhp was put on the sig a long time ago whilst in a "friendly" chat with Jake, its obviously still getting a reaction now ,

i dispute what you are saying about the manifold, yes at low revs it would produce more torque but at high revs you end up with high backpressure and overlapping exhaust open periods which negates the use of high lift cams as well as higher EGT's, i do accept that Thor are probably quoting flywheel but what i find hard to accept is the unswerving opinion that someone elses dyno is the benchmark of accuracy "just because we all use it"

[Ryan.G]

how would bigger injectors allow any more power without cranking up the boost further

 

What i was tring to say is 510whp is impossiable with 550cc injectors unless your fuel pressure is around 50psi static pressure.

 

yes i suppose the injectors are flat out

 

Does this not worry you? Over 90% injector duty i class as dangerous TBH

 

i dispute what you are saying about the manifold, yes at low revs it would produce more torque but at high revs you end up with high backpressure and overlapping exhaust open periods which negates the use of high lift cams as well as higher EGT's

 

Paul we are not talking about a stock cast manifold here with an adapter plate, i am talking about a professionally designed cast manifold that has been designed to flow to the requirements of a 2jzgte with a single turbo and provide enough port velocity not to cause a restriction. The Higher EGT's under 950c are also a bonus in a cast manifold case

 

With regards Wes's figure that was at 1.4bar dropping to 1.2bar (MBC problem) on the dyno sheet and my datalog. (think his boost gauge is faulty ). Even my T61 at 1.3bar made 566bhp and i have the same spec as wes nearly apart from the manifold and trim. I would suggest maybe meeting up wes and having a test drive as if you are running 510whp his car would feel slower

 

Also Wes's car was still climbing nicely on the dyno so there is 100% proof that the cast was not becoming a restriction.

 

Yes if you want say 600+ bhp i agree it will probably start to become a restriction but for a small gt35 to a t62 turbo the cast route IMO is the best.

 

i do accept that Thor are probably quoting flywheel but what i find hard to accept is the unswerving opinion that someone elses dyno is the benchmark of accuracy "just because we all use it"

 

End of the day its a tool for mapping a car safely in a controlled environment and im not going to find myself getting into debates about dyno brands when i have used pretty much every brand in the UK and now select which ones i use.

 

If you can find the link, Performance Tuner did a test on alot of the dyno brands in Uk a while back to see which one was near the actually manufacture BHP. The only ones that came near was both Dyno dynamic dyno's.

 

Ryan

[mikeyb10supra]

Wez just for the record I think Simon B is setting up a t67 on a cast manifold at the moment

[paul mac]

What i was tring to say is 510whp is impossiable with 550cc injectors unless your fuel pressure is around 50psi static pressure.

 

 

 

Does this not worry you? Over 90% injector duty i class as dangerous TBH

 

 

 

Paul we are not talking about a stock cast manifold here with an adapter plate, i am talking about a professionally designed cast manifold that has been designed to flow to the requirements of a 2jzgte with a single turbo and provide enough port velocity not to cause a restriction. The Higher EGT's under 950c are also a bonus in a cast manifold case

 

With regards Wes's figure that was at 1.4bar dropping to 1.2bar (MBC problem) on the dyno sheet and my datalog. (think his boost gauge is faulty ). Even my T61 at 1.3bar made 566bhp and i have the same spec as wes nearly apart from the manifold and trim. I would suggest maybe meeting up wes and having a test drive as if you are running 510whp his car would feel slower

 

Also Wes's car was still climbing nicely on the dyno so there is 100% proof that the cast was not becoming a restriction.

 

Yes if you want say 600+ bhp i agree it will probably start to become a restriction but for a small gt35 to a t62 turbo the cast route IMO is the best.

 

 

 

End of the day its a tool for mapping a car safely in a controlled environment and im not going to find myself getting into debates about dyno brands when i have used pretty much every brand in the UK and now select which ones i use.

 

If you can find the link, Performance Tuner did a test on alot of the dyno brands in Uk a while back to see which one was near the actually manufacture BHP. The only ones that came near was both Dyno dynamic dyno's.

 

Ryan

 

ahh that explains alot, no i am not worried about the injectors at all the car has been running for nearly 2 years in this spec, i was not aware of what Wez's manifold looked like but i had visions of stock re-welded one so apologies to Wez for dissing his manifold , i can accept the power figure now you mentioned it was at 1.4 bar as i thought from his sig it was at 1.1bar this was essentially what i was struggling with, i was thinking 550 fwhp at 1.1 bar equals about 600 fwhp at 1.4 which would have meant about 100 hp more than mine just with a set of cams:(, thanks for taking the time to explain it all, i was going to get my car dyno'ed locally out of interest but they got all scared when i mentioned auto

[Wez]

My peak power is at max rpm (7000+ rpm) where boost dropped to 1.1 possibly 1.2bar.

 

My boost was peaking/spiking at 1.4bar in the midrange, this was on the MBC before converting to an AEM boost solenoid. The dyno in my sig is using the AEM boost solenoid with the solenoid map capped at 1.2bar, this also shows less midrange as I havent finished setting it up.