AJI

Sacrilege. One of the best ICE's of all time to be fitted to a car in the MkIV, to even think of replacing it with a milk float motor? The shame!

Question now is, which would you jump in to on a bright Sunday morning to go for a blast?

Just wanted to add my condolences. She was a great person and a great driver who had great knowledge of the greatest race track in the world. I spent some time having a chat with her on a couple of my Nurburgring visits. Always very friendly and approachable. RIP.

Hi Tony, I've gone a similar route since selling my Supra a few years ago. When I decided to sell up we used the money to do some pretty amazing holidays over the following years and then eventually I had to have another car with some grunt to it so bought an B8 Audi S4 (saloon rather than the estate), and it had to be a manual gearbox of course. I also got one of the earlier years so that I pay the lower tax amount each year. Also got a decent bargain with it costing £10,500 with only 49,000 miles on the clock. The 60% rear / 40% front drive split does mean the car finds it really hard to lose traction and it is a case of having little worry in planting your foot to the floor when you want to go. Too heavy to be a fun track car but for road driving it is great.

Dom - if selling you are currently in a seller's market where you can basically set your own price. Go crazy and see who is prepared to stump up the cash There seems to be enough people out there who are prepared to pay whatever they have to beat other buyers in order to get a Supra in their garage. So put it up for £60k or more and see if you get interest. You may just. Same goes to all other Supra owners, simply add on an additional £10k or £20k if selling, there are likely buyers who will pay that price. As there are few forcing factors out there at the moment to hold Supra prices down. The only one I can see is the rate of imports from Japan, and these are probably not coming in to the UK at such a rate to meet demand. (Maybe Jurgen could comment on this?)

Good work people, the new site seems to be a success. Thumbs up from me.

Hi Scooter Yes sold all my performance cars a few years ago and ventured away from being a regular poster on this forum, only checking in every now and then to see if the UK Supra community was still going strong. After selling the Supra we used the money on some luxury holidays over the past few years. Taking business class flights and 4-5 star hotels and all that. Its been great. (Until this virus outbreak of course) I have also been saving up for something new in terms of special car. For a while I was looking at the 4.7 V8 Vantage, but they are just a minefield on maintenance. If you happen to buy one that has been well built then great, but if not then cost of ownership can cripple you. I then started looking at the Audi V10 R8. Again, maintenance record is key and these cars are generally well built and considered bullet proof in many ways. Carbon build up is the only main issue to consider. But then the C8 Corvette started to hit the radar. No manual gearbox option at the moment but the dual-clutch on this new car is said to be fantastic. So when it comes to the UK and hopefully in decent numbers to cause a good amount of depreciation, I am thinking this could become an option. But at the moment my daily run around is an A4 2L turbo (220bhp) quattro. And I also have a 'holiday' car which is an S4 3L supercharged (approx. 340bhp) quattro. How are you doing these days? Supra still going strong?

I would guess that if they didn't there would be the usual UN mutterings which would obviously result in no action as they are fairly powerless, but then it would be up to individual nations to shut off China to their markets and travel. If the west, and other nations not allied to China, did that then China is history as an economic powerhouse. They may then realise the need to pay up and come clean about everything. Although being a communist regime I suspect they will aim for the hardship option, as it will be their people that suffer rather than any party member. But that would be a huge gamble for them as there would be wide spread revolt, with possible turning of the army against the party.

Supermarkets seem to be the only businesses doing 'well' recently. I fear for a lot of other type of businesses though. I think you are correct to point out it is still early days and as it all drags on the reality of lockdown and other restrictions will be apparent. One positive aspect is that its not like the finance crisis, which had an internal 'rot' in the system, once restrictions are lifted the demand should return steadily. But of course the big question is whether there will be businesses still afloat to provide the supply. Those that are should see a "V" shape return to business, but as many will likely fail and have to restart, the economy as a whole is said to be a bit like a strange looking "wheel barrow" shape. (That being a steep drop down to the base of the "wheel barrow" and then a graduated curve back up to meet demand). Scary times.

If true I also think China is in for some very hard times ahead. I would hope however that world leaders can see a benefit from not going to WWIII.

Well for one, cash in the bank allows you to buy bog roll I don't think Aldi would be able to take a swapsy for bog roll with a person's car. Its the use of a common value that people will accept for payment for essentials. One person may see no value in a sports car, where as another may see it as their 'dream'. But if there is no common value agreed then it becomes worthless for paying for essentials for living. Cash in the bank is also the method for mortgage payments, council bills, food, fuel etc. etc. Assets are good for 'storing' wealth, and a method for trying to counter inflation and lack of interest rates, but its not a "liquid" form of wealth if you need to spend quickly in an emergency, for example if you lose your job and you have upcoming heating, food and mortgage payments. But there is a valid argument for the bank "owning" your money. We saw in the last finance crisis the likes of Cyprus where the banks refused access to private accounts - to prevent a run on the banks but also to aid them from failing, where private funds had to stay in the institution to keep them afloat. But at least in the UK we do have the FSCS as you mention.

That is a tidy sum of money that the buyer has had to pay. But I've never understood the desire to own cars purely to store them away, in fear of being driven for the additional milegae depreciation. There are museums for that sort of carry on If its just for the investment angle then there is a big risk in that venture too, as we've seen with a global pandemic, people's priorities change very quickly whereby cash in the bank to be able to spend on essentials for living becomes much more valuable than assets for sale that nobody has the desire to buy. Besides that, surely the investment has now been 'made' by whoever previously owned the car? Even in the best of times, is a Toyota Supra likely to rise more than that price? (time will tell I suppose)

Don't visit the forum all that often these days but just checking in to see if all is good with forum members and that everyone is coping with the lock down. Regarding volunteering Adam, that is a very good idea. As time goes on there will be a growing population number that will in effect have an immunity and will have the opportunity to help the country pull together.

They'd be around £3k when new. (I think that is what I paid for mine way back when)

I've been following Supra prices since I sold mine a few years ago. Amazing how people (or the market) have suddenly expected them to be much higher value than what they were just 3 years ago. (Yes, I know, I should have kept hold of mine ! but it was time for me to move on) Its a two-edged sword in my opinion, because although MkIV Supras are, and always will be great cars, and higher prices go to provide some comfort for existing owners, it is however only the pristine original/unmodified examples that will genuinely have the high values that are seen recently. Such cars are the collectibles that will retain their price and even appreciate. As such they'll also rarely get used. So I think a lot of people are being ripped off at the moment with adverts stating "appreciating classic" and the like, and many buyers will also be unlikely to sell on for their expected new higher price (profit) once the market realizes that for the money paid you don't really get value for money. Considering most MkIVs are up and over the 100,000 mile mark often with tired suspension, bushes, turbos, engine internals, gearboxes etc. that may be hard to source when they eventually go bang.....and when 2nd hand 20 year old plus cars are being sold for prices approaching what they were when they were brand new. The rise of 2nd had car prices across the west has mainly been driven (excuse the pun) by low or non-existent savings interest rates. With no interest rates for savers, there is pressure to put one's wealth in to assets. Which, as the flow of wealth transfer pours in to assets, this drives up asset prices as demand grows. However, when saving interest rates come back to normality (whatever that could be deemed as), with a meaningful positive rate, then the flow of wealth will quickly drain from assets and back in to bank accounts. This is because bank account savings are the most safe method to store wealth - assuming you divide your wealth across various banks that guarantee the £85,000 FSCS protection. Assets are not considered "liquid", whereby one can not simply go to a bank and hand over an asset and have it replaced by the amount of cash that you want for it. An asset is only converted to "useful" money if and when a buyer is interested and hands over the money you want for it - which is no guarantee to say the least. Governments and central banks are very much under pressure to push the global trend back towards meaningful positive interest rates as this gives governments a useful 'lever' to control national financial policies. So when that time comes, there will be a whole load of people sitting on assets that they will not be able to sell anywhere near the price they paid for them. Its just something to bear in mind when currently looking at the market at inflated car asking prices. Don't be too tempted by the line of thought "you only live once", therefore I must buy it. The best purchases are those that you patiently wait for, whereby the old adage of "good things come to those who wait" can ring true. My reply sounds a little negative and apologies if it does. Having taken a step away from Supra ownership and currently looking to buy a V10 R8 I'm being very patient to see what prices are doing. I think brexit may have an effect if things take a down turn for the UK economy, because that will push up certain asset prices even more. However, if brexit goes without major issues then I think the UK economy will pick up quite quickly and the bank of england will be in a position to roll out a program of interest rate increases. Which will then see people turning away from many assets and back to bank accounts (and financial products) for wealth storage and investment. When this happens it is expected that 2nd hand car prices will drop as the demand will significantly drop away. So coming to the question of the OP (at last!) - its quite a hard thing to answer at the moment. I think the months after brexit will be a turning point. Can the UK economy pick up, and especially pick up at a faster rate than the EU? - as this will drive investment in to the UK in this part of the world. Then will the bank of england look towards increasing interest rates to curb people's spending rates? In the meantime every car seems to be sold on the promise that it is an "appreciating investment", but I would just say "buyer beware" on this - and then look at just how much money is being asked for the condition of the asset that you are buying. If the car is to be bought as an "appreciating investment" then you'll likely be under pressure to not put any additional miles on it and leave it in the garage all year. But if the car is to be used, then you'll have to consider how to treat it as it continues to age etc. One thing that does help MkIV Supra prices is the total failure of Toyota to bring to market the MkV as a successor to the MkIV Supra. Instead of producing the FT-01 they made a Z4 hard top instead.

Just to follow on from the previous strip-down vid in the thread, here is the 2JZ rebuild : Just one question I have from watching it : I notice the cylinder walls looked a little scored (@1m:57sec), is that a safe build in that condition? (I was expecting to see smooth shiny walls).

Thought you guys would enjoy this video: Nicely explains why the engine is revered for its strength and high power applications.

p.s. Having given a 'balanced' reply above, just have to finish with saying that having experienced both auto and 6-speed manual gearboxes on the Supra, the 6-speed is by far the best box for the Supra given its weight, power and gear ratios. I drove mine for a few years as a daily driver and then later on as a weekend toy and occasional track car at the Nurburgring etc. - not once was I wanting my control over the gearbox removed in preference for a computer But I would say though, that as power increases above 600bhp it means 1st, 2nd, 3rd gears go by in very quick succession, and a manual change can become too over worked if you are on "max. attack" - this is when I'd say many would be thinking of an auto-box to help them out. But then nobody is forcing you to go max attack

I think as will always be the case is that for many it is a personal preference. And this is because everyone wants and expects something different from their car. I'm very much "old school" in that I enjoy the involvement of driving and view auto boxes as falling in to one of two categories. (1) lazy driving (in a non-derogatory sense of the term) (2) as a 'tool' for obtaining the quickest acceleration or lap time (especially the sequential or dual-clutch variants) For me when I drive a sport car or a powerful sports GT, I'm looking for a 3-way connection between driver, car and road. There is no lap time to be obtained on the road and I'm not wishing for a computer to perform a gear change for me. But of course for others, their focus may be on pure 0-60 times at the expense of removing the driver connection. Or it maybe that they do a lot of town driving and are wishing to have a computer perform the gear changes. The best practice is to go out and experience both gearboxes and decide firstly how you want your connection with the car to be and then judge how good either the manual or auto-boxes are in delivering that expectation.

The Goodwood prototype looked similar to the test mule...... but none look like the original concept that got everyone excited about the new MkV. https://www.supramkv.com/attachments/toyota-supra-comparison2-jpg.840/

Just seen the video of the run up the hill at Goodwood , is it just me or does it already look a bit 'soft' and dated? The car seems a bit too 'tall' and the back end seems a little too short also. The Z4 chassis really does show through with what they've placed on top. Is there enough room to fit a rear wing? I hope its just the camo that is masking a better looking car underneath.

Been asking local Toyota dealerships about waiting lists etc., in prospect to getting on one to buy when the Supra MK V is finally released. In response to your list Gaz... a - good b - even better c - no problems with that d - unfortunately if that's true I'm out - no manual means I've lost all interest. There are many of us who just don't get any pleasure or connection with auto boxes coupled to performance cars (that includes DCT). So if no manual then its all been a waste (for me at least).

The release of a MkV will have little effect on MkIV prices, I can't see the market connection. (However I'd happily stand to be corrected). The MkV will be in a very different price bracket, it will therefore have a different customer base (no disrespect to current MkIV owners, but what I mean here is that people who want a new £60k MkV are looking for/expecting something different than a 20 year old £15k MkIV - if £60k is what the new MkV will be pitched at). Current MkIV prices have bounced back over the last few years after they reached the bottom of their depreciation curve. There are however some reality checks to take in to account with current MkIV prices... (only in my opinion of course), first is that interest rates are due to increase again soon, meaning the 'pressure' on the 2nd hand car market will be reduced in terms of being propped up massively by finance deals. Secondly, current MkIVs will continue to age, in terms of possible rust, engine life, technology and newer performance models on the market (from all brands). Looking at a comparison of how newer models of the Porsche 911 affect previous models, most still depreciated. Only the rare versions of which the price is then determined by availability do they rocket upwards. Finally as the MkIV recently bounced up from the bottom of the depreciation curve there is generally a 'pressure' for people to buy in order they didn't lose money on re-sale, or simply to flip and make a profit. This has a positive loop return on prices - but which may now be coming to an end. But as prices have now seemingly stabilized and with the likely affects from what is mentioned above come in to play, I don't think MkIV prices will go up any further - may even start to slide a little. Again - I'd be happily proved wrong on this as I owned my MkIV for over 15 years.... they are fantastic cars! Which will always hold a good amount of value.

IMO Toyota would not be releasing a next generation Supra if it were not to live up to the name. Talking about brands, that would be brand suicide. But either way, we are due to find out soon when they unveil the motorsport version at Geneva and then the road going version at New York motorshow a little later in March (so I've read). Lexus LC-F is more aimed at competing with the likes of BMW M6, the large comfortable GTs focused on smooth effortless driving with a party trick of fast acceleration. Although it has a hideous front end on it with that hugely over sized grill. Where as the MkIV was aimed more at competing with 911's of the day, a sporty focused GT that was more capable around corners. I'd hope at least that the MkV is also aimed at competing with 911's rather than M6's.

Is the true-twin mode a permanent mod or can it be 're-piped' back to 'stock' ? (It would likely need a re-map to take it back to stock?) Nice car all the same. Always liked the gun metal colour. Good luck with the sale.