martin_a

off topic - anyone recommend a good paint shop edinburgh or falkirk areas. i want a quote for this door repair and has to be a free estimate, if someone wnats my business i ain't paying them for the pleasure. m.

Agreed as i have done likewise. Said at the start i was happy to have a discussion. There are several points we agree on and several i don't think we are any closer on. Things like not needing to modernise i will disagree with especially the way women are treated when it comes to things like rape in Sharia Law. I do agree that honour killings etc do not necessarily equal Islam but there are muslims carrying this act out in the name of Islam and that is what gets it the name. You don't see honour killings amongst other groups. I'll still disagree with you on Iraq too if that is ok. News from the BBC today about 60 bodies found all victims of sectarian, Muslim against Muslim violence, not one US rocket to be mentioned. The people of Iraq have a chance to shape their country instead they are destroying it. I think Thorin puts a good point that many of these things are Muslim issues with people carrying out these acts in the name of Islam. As he said you just don't see this from any other religion and it isn't isolated, as the newspaper reports show this is something that seems to happen across the globe. There seems to be a lot of blaming the west. I respect your religion and i respect your right to practise it in peace but comparing people having their homes raided because of a potential threat to life against innocent nuns being killed because the pope read out some text from 600 years ago rather than discussing it rationally like we have done then i'm afraid that it is understandable to have people concerned about Islam. Again, no other religion seems to do this. Islam needs to have a look at itself and accept some criticism when it is due. Muslims also need to take responsibility for the actions of others carried out in the name of Islam instead of giving excuses or reasons as to why the US / UK / The West has provoked it. Best to leave it there i reckon. Interesting sparring with you. I have learned a few things even if i don't completely agree with what you are saying and my personal experience conflicts. m.

It is. Why wouldn't the Imams support it? The peace loving bit was me being a pain - Islam is a religion of peace and all that yet these guys were so worked up that British taxpayers were spending money to help educate and integrate their women into their communities that they had to be arrested. Why educating women would be against Islam i don't know. This is true. For centurys Middle Eastern countries were a beacon of learning and enlightmentment. However, the world caught up and moved on where Islam appears to have stood still. Regimes that hold Sharia law immediately cut off half their gifted population by not inculding women in education of good jobs. I'm not sure the few argument stands up either. I'd say Iran, Afghanistan and Saudi Arabia to a certain extent (non of which have free press) are not entirely made up of a few uneducated people. I'd hope you could tell that i am not against Islam at all but i am simply commenting on the facts as the world presents them. Many Islamic countries, despite their outcrys at the corrupt west and the US are themselves rotten to the very core. It smacks of hypocrisy and explains why so many look to emigrate from these countries. Trouble is they don't always leave their religious baggage behind with them. Arranged marriages and so called honour killings have no place in the UK Danish cartoons? Jihad Against Danish Newspaper From the desk of Paul Belien on Sat, 2005-10-22 20:25 Islam is no laughing matter. The Danish newspaper Jyllands-Posten is being protected by security guards and several cartoonists have gone into hiding after the newspaper published a series of twelve cartoons (see them all here, halfway the article) about the prophet Muhammad. According to the Islam it is blasphemous to make images of the prophet. Muslim fundamentalists have threatened to bomb the paper’s offices and kill the cartoonists. From the BBC: Police said four people were detained in Amsterdam and one in Amersfoort as part of the same investigation into a network of radical Muslims. Tensions have been high since filmmaker Theo van Gogh, who made a film critical of Islam, was shot dead in the street in a week ago. From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia The 2002 Bali bombing occurred on October 12, 2002 in the resort town of Kuta on the Indonesian island of Bali, where it killed 202 people and injured a further 209. It was the deadliest act of terrorism in Indonesian history. The majority of the dead were foreign tourists, especially Australians, although nearly one-fifth were Indonesian nationals. Again i agree. Religion, whatever it may be has been used badly by a lot of so called supporters. Even now there is sectarian violence in Scotland not to mention Ireland with the Catholics and Protestants. As i said i'm not against Islam but you don't seem to accept the weight of evidence that Islam needs to modernise. Not saying otherwise but i think you'll find the attacks in Iraq are Sunni versus Shia. The US and UK are not killing anyone. The entire country has a great chance to use US cash to rebuild after the removal of a man who kept power through fear. Instead of seizing the opportunity these muslim 'brothers' are busy blowing each other up. took years to get evidence on him. and yes, freedom of speech. Yuo scoff at that like it is a little thing but again as a basic right we have it along with the right to silence and the right to a fair trial. I don't see places like Iran and Saudi offering the same basic rights to their citizens. No that's censorship by the state. Under your rule anyone could be thrown in jail. You could say "hello" to a copper and he could arrest you for religious hatred if he wanted to. Evidence would be hearsay. Freedom of Speech is a vital part of our society and even if it protects scum like Hamza it has to be defended. Tragic accident but these things will occasionally happen. Again these things need to be investigated but in this case the police were just too twitchy. Investigated and let go. Fair do's i'd have thought. THinking before shooting. Good work Police chaps. Same as they would/did when someone was supposed to be kidnapping baby Beckham. No one complained that was done on religous grounds. Actively recruiting and favouring muslim coppers? Really racist and why do they need to do that? The "muslim community" is why. I'm not just talking about muslims here, i have the same thoughts on any special interest group be a part of the British community not your own. Join in, learn the language and accept that's how things are done here. Do not complain it isn't run along the same lines of the crappy country you ran away from! m.

Aye i was worried about mine as i got it from a non club member - and off ebay for that matter although i did a 300 mile round trip to see it first. Paid up because he had only had it a few months, the oil etc was all clear and it was covered in wee japanese service stickers. didn't notice the rear wing had been sprayed until i got it home though! Doh! Still a stunning car though. The 3 alternator thing doesn't sit right though. There has to be another issue, i just can't see it being that unlucky. m.

You seem to be unlucky - or your car was a bit of a lemon. In 2 years of owning the FTO i did 60,000 miles and replaced the rear discs and pads, front pads (but not discs strangely) drop links front and rear and the ARB bushes. Oh and the tyres. I paid for an ITG and Mongoose + decat because i wanted one and apart from servicing her a lot (oooer) never once had a problem! Sounds like a real case of bad luck. m.

Deffo out if it is Dastek anyway since they don't do autos but still turn up for the viewing. Someone i know at work had issues with Dastek and an MR2 Turbo though, weeks of delays with the thing and poor running but i guess every place has a bad story to tell. Rolling road shouldn't cause issues though! m.

We recently had a pakistan women's day in the town where i live. The aim of the day (which my girlfriend volunteered to help out at) was to show Pakistani and muslim women the ways the council could help them find work by learning english, computer courses and things. Outside in the car park two peace loving muslims were arrested for shouting abuse that it was against Islam and inside the local immam refused to let any of the women present speak, instead, in the spirit of community relations he stood up and ranted for 10 minutes in Urdu. The only thing i don't understand is how you can ignore the evidence across the world, as highlighted in Thorin's article of how intolerant, racist, sexist and bigoted Islam is. Sorry you might claim it is a minority being focused on but the evidence from across the globe says otherwise. Bloke deserved it. Sorry but he did. As an illegal immigrant he shouldn't have been here anyway and running onto a packed tube train with armed officers asking him to stop at that point in time? He was killed by his own stupidity. If he had been a bomber and they hadn't shot him we'd have been asking why not. Good work police people who will have to live with the knowledge they killed the guy forever. So... 300 Nazis have a rally in your street each week, indeed each day and you'd be ok with that? Bit of a special argument that one. See earlier post on Northern Ireland. Anyone who is a threat should be detained. Its like complaining stop and search is racist, it isn't. Yes the police stop more black/african men but unfortunately the facts are that most muggings are commited by these people so they get stopped as likely suspects not because the police are going for them. If it was Chinese people doing the crimes they'd be the ones getting pulled. I refer you again to this quote: "Following the speech, Metropolitan Police Commissioner Sir Ian Blair said it was "extraordinarily difficult" to clamp down on Islamic extremism without offending large groups of Muslims." This country has a policy of free speech and allows you to criticise the government. Hamza and his fans get away with it because they are safe undercover of free speech provided by the western society they claim to hate. Unless you are suggesting that freedom of speech in this country is suspended there is little the police can do. Would you really like to see one of our basic rights taken away? Hamza et al are a problem within the "muslim community" (why we can't just be a "human community" i don't know) and it is the muslims that need to deal with it. If they are in the minority why hasn't the Muslim Council of Britain been able to stamp it out? m.

Nothing wrong with a bit of NIN!!! Not as keen on Bahaus but can't have it all eh? m.

01. Supra-Man (just watching i'm afraid) 02. Geo. 03. AlanM (depending on date) 04. jamesmark (depending on date, 489 mile round trip for a RR lol) 05. martin_a (no preference on date as would just be observer) 06. 07. 08. 09. 10. 11.

I usually park miles away from the door when i'm on my own but with the mrs in the car we used to blue badge so nice big space and less chance of getting whacked - Aye right! Going to get my own quote too because if his is suspiciously cheap i will be saying no thanks! m.

I'll not do the road session, doesn't seem too much point with an unmodified NA so i haven't voted on a date but if something gets sorted i'll try to come along. Another out and about session we should consider is either a belt up to Fort William and a toddle round the Scotsburgring to Kinlochleven and/or a Trossachs tour through to Callendar past Loch Katrine. Both need to be done before the weather comes in though and both will be helped by as much daylight as possible! m.

The issue with building a nuke isn't the technology. Most countries have scientists capable of doing it the method has been around for 60 years, the problem is getting the fuel and parts to do it - similar to Iran and their power station which could have its spent fuel processed for a nuclear weapon. The trouble with North Korea is - unlike Iraq say, that they have or have also been developing intercontinental ballistic missiles, essentially weapons that could be fired against any country in the world not just something that will get over the border to South Korea. It isn't just the US putting pressure on them. This is a unstable regime run by a group of complete power hungry nutters. It isn't a US issue (comments on ham fisted approach etc accepted) it is a world issue and quite rightly the world needs to come out to condemn this move. m.

That told me. Your rebuttal has made me reconsider my entire outlook. How can i compete with an argument like "You are funny" ? I'll give you your point on the media, they do give time to these people but they make time for themselves. See the heckling they gave John Reid a month or so ago. http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/5362052.stm But blaming the Police? not really, can't do a thing or it is 'anti muslim'. People like this are put in power by their followers and it is other muslims who must deal with this. It took years to get Hamza out of one of the biggest mosques in london. Even stood outside he had 300 + people turning up the hear him spout his bile. Nothing is done because people choose to do nothing. from same BBC story Following the speech, Metropolitan Police Commissioner Sir Ian Blair said it was "extraordinarily difficult" to clamp down on Islamic extremism without offending large groups of Muslims. What do you think should be done? m.

With people like Abu Hamza in positions of power and people who have actually stated they want to see an Islamic state in Britain looked up to by members of the Muslim community then i'm afraid the situation won't change. Similar to the Danish cartoons, if muslim/islamic groups stopped behaving like this in the first place then they could stop playing to the stereotype. Moderation and discussion is the key. I'd be happy for Islam/Muslims to bring their religion into the modern world but that doesn't seem likely to happen anytime soon. And don't say it is just a few people. Unfortunately world events just don't back this up. The devoutly religous Taliban did a great job. Iran, now there is a forward thinking beacon of civil rights. Iraq, decending into civil war as muslims attack their own instead of working together to build a new country. Sudan and the muslim militias, Turkey another human rights hell hole etc etc. Government by religion, especially one as rigid as Islam just doesn't work - or at least doesn't give a high quality of life to anyone not in power. m.

I suspect you know very well what i meant. Happy to have a serious discussion if you are but i ain't playing silly buggers! m.

Not at all, trouble is this sort of thing happens too often and Straw is right that Islam needs to tackle these people head on. While you've got imams in place encouraging this kind of behaviour nothing is going to be done. On the veil thing there was an army recruitment advert years ago asking what would you do? The camera rolled up to a guy shouting and screaming and possibly waving a weapon (not clear on that one). Any way the questions were things like Do you shoot or not?" Next thing you see a hand come up and sunglasses are removed. The point was you can think as well as shoot and open face conversation is the best way to put people at ease. To that end i think Straw is right. m.

How do you reason with a religion that thinks like this? http://img400.imageshack.us/img400/183/freedom2au6.jpg

I went from FTO GPX to Supra NA and the renewal (still with Sky) went up £50 m.

Hopefully a story with a happy ending but it could have been quite different... Went to Tesco on Saturday and with the Mrs in the car parked in the disabled bay as usual. Big help for her being able to get the Supra doors wide open without fear of hitting anything. In the shop for about 15 minutes, only bought a couple of birthday cards and come out to notice the red car we parked next to has gone and has been replaced by a shed of a white Saxo with its passenger door embeded in my driver's door! Saw the bloke check it and then get in the car so scooted over as quick as we could and saw the huge white scuff down my shiny black door. Que some hammering on his window until he opens the door (electric window probably bust) and i get to confront him. Brilliantly stepped into the door too so he couldn't close it and the car couldn't move. Conversation went along the lines of initial denial to "might have" and "lets have a look." Having agreed that he'd actually done it he did want to try to poilish it out so i took name and address but without any ID to back it up. Went straight round the cop shop and to be fair the PC was very helpful and took all the details. As the bloke was a passenger in the car though they weren't sure if it went down as vandalism or an RTA but eventually decided to go for an RTA. Closer inspection of the damage on arrival home revealed that the door is actually dented so it must have gone with a fair crack. Still the PC went to see him as she "had a bit of time" and he admitted it to her so couldn't get out of it when i showed up and pointed out it was a lot worse than he first thought. He's been right enough about it but for my part it was good luck that i saw him do it and was able to stop them driving away. Simple lesson here kids, keep a hold of your door when it's windy! Mrs couldn't believe i didn't try to batter him! m.

You can only put £400 a month in? Student accomodation is probably going to come in at a couple of hundred so that's £600 between you. My mortgage is only £500 Still think you should go for the RAF. You aren't happy and if things don't change it is likely you'll regret it and resent her as she follows the career she wants. That will also spell the end of the relationship. Take the challenge and see how it goes. m.

Congrats Sabrina. Starting a new place myself in november, just counting down to getting out the door! m.

Cheers guys i'll give pro alloys a call and see what deal they can do for me. m.

Not sure why it has to be a choice between the two? As said it is about give and take and while you aren't standing in her way it does seem as though you are letting her stand in yours. Would you be away immediately or would you be UK based for training? If that's the case then you could still see each other. Interesting to note she is off to halls and you aren't looking to move in together. On that basis i'd say you have to follow your dream. m.

Cheers i did look at the Pro Alloys website but either they don't put a lot of tyres up there or it wasn't working right for me as it kept giving me a blank page for Falken etc. I'd need the tyres posted to me as i'm Scotlandshire Seen a good deal on the Falkens at £71 and The Khumo Supra's at just £57 which is why i was doubting the quality - the Khumo Sport are £68 m.

Also having this debate at the moment. I ordered the Avon's but for reasons explained in Supra Chat they never arrived. Now looking at the Falken's but the back boots are Khumo Supra which are a lot less. comparing the brands available what's good? The Khumo Sport seem more expensive but just wondered if they were worth it over the Supra ones? Also, are the Supra ones any cop for the front? They do seem a bit cheap... m.