Dan's Supra Project

Very interesting...

Not a great deal in it mate, if mine was at 1.6bar it might have stayed with you on the middle bit better, are you on a .68 or .81 ar?

Something ive found and i think in time you might find the same is super fast spooling is overrated, even at the setup im at now (you will have to come for a ride in it) it still spools fast enough that i dont mind losing a bit more for some extra power up top, ive just ordered a .96 ar for my billet to try for some more power again:D

Well done dan, impressive result!

Nice going dan!

Jamie, you're an animal....

Not a great deal in it mate, if mine was at 1.6bar it might have stayed with you on the middle bit better, are you on a .68 or .81 ar?

 

Something ive found and i think in time you might find the same is super fast spooling is overrated, even at the setup im at now (you will have to come for a ride in it) it still spools fast enough that i dont mind losing a bit more for some extra power up top, ive just ordered a .96 ar for my billet to try for some more power again:D

Very close - I'll try the 1.8bar run and see how that fares too.

I went with the 0.81 in the end, I figured with this exhaust manifold and stock cams I'd hardly be lacking in any midrange so might as well go for the bigger one.

I can appreciate that the full throttle mega fast spool can be a little over-rated but what I really love is the instant response this gives in the low speed, low rev, part throttle "normal driving" situations. It even feels like it has more pull in the low revs than my sequential twin setup and is a hell of a lot smoother. I can imagine this could get a little "expensive" without sensible driving as you only have to look at the accelerator when cruising at anything from 65mph upwards and it starts boosting - could be a fuel consumption nightmare!

A 0.96 housing will be an interesting swap, you'd probably need another 1000rpm to see the power curve level off! Let me know when you're likely to be going back on the rollers and I'll see if I can come over at the same time (and maybe with the few remaining mods done depending on time scale).

Well done dan, impressive result!

Nice going dan!

 

Cheers fellas, managed to get it sorted just before Christmas which is nice. It would be great if the weather improved a bit now

Jamie - this is from your 632bhp 1.8bar run vs my same 1.6bar run. Both of these comparison graphs have got me interested enough to try a 4" exhaust at some point and see how much power that frees up at the top end staying with 1.6bar. You can see your's scream away above 5250rpm and I'm sure the exhaust contributes a little there.

So, does anybody want to lend me a 4" exhaust for a few days for a rolling road test? Please If it makes a big difference I have a little plan up my sleeve to get a free flowing but quiet setup. If it doesn't make a big difference I will stick with what I have.

As i said it was not a good setup that one, it should not have lost the low down power for just .2 bar increase in boost, either something to do with running out of duty cycle and he had to keep it safe which killed the low down grunt or the turbo might have been on it way out, it was damaged when removed a few months later and it sort of makes sense now.

Id say you are right about needing some extra revs to make the most of the .96, at my present 730 bhp setup im still making power to the rev limit so a higher one would be good and is what im looking to achieve very soon with my spare engine.

Yes, seems like a good sign that turbo was damaged by that point already. It did seem like a fair drop in the low down grunt.

Don't go throwing a rod through the block, chasing mega revs on the stock rod bolts Charlie might be upset if you get oil all over his rolling road!

Yes, seems like a good sign that turbo was damaged by that point already. It did seem like a fair drop in the low down grunt.

Don't go throwing a rod through the block, chasing mega revs on the stock rod bolts Charlie might be upset if you get oil all over his rolling road!

Spare lump will be fully built mate, Lee is on it in the new year, im still going to push this one harder though in the name of science:D

Good man - gives the rest of us some reassurance and safety margin

p.s. I have those plugs we talked about, do you want to sort out money and posting after New Year?

p.s. I have those plugs we talked about, do you want to sort out money and posting after New Year?

Anytime thats good for you Dan.

Great results Dan, well done.

great results Dan

For reference you could take a look a my plot here. It's a bit more spikey as it hasn't been smothed out before printing.

Setup on this is T67 (NonDBB), BL tubular manifold, complete 4" and greddy intake, 264 cams and done at 1,55 bar

http://img20.imageshack.us/img20/2005/img0989p.jpg

great results Dan

 

For reference you could take a look a my plot here. It's a bit more spikey as it hasn't been smothed out before printing.

 

Setup on this is T67 (NonDBB), BL tubular manifold, complete 4" and greddy intake, 264 cams and done at 1,55 bar

 

http://img20.imageshack.us/img20/2005/img0989p.jpg

Is this with stock fuel and stock engine?

complete fuelkit, 1000cc, and build lump (stock bore and stroke, very slightly rasied CR)

Is this with stock fuel and stock engine?

Great results Dan, well done.

Cheers Kev - we'll have to meet up at some point when the weather improves.

great results Dan

 

For reference you could take a look a my plot here. It's a bit more spikey as it hasn't been smothed out before printing.

 

Setup on this is T67 (NonDBB), BL tubular manifold, complete 4" and greddy intake, 264 cams and done at 1,55 bar

 

http://img20.imageshack.us/img20/2005/img0989p.jpg

Thanks Christian, nice looking plot, thanks for that

Glad the fuel hoses arrived safe

I got my breather tank yesterday, this was made by johnd_mkiv and I have to say he did a smashing job - thank you John I will get a few more pictures when I actually fit it. I'm not sure I actually want to powder coat it now

I do need to modify the mounting slightly (on opposite face) before I can fit it but I bet I will struggle to find an aluminium welder to do it between Xmas and the New Year now. Anyway, I should be able to at least get it in to place temporarily and then sort out the correct lengths for the braided lines to the tank and the hardlines to the midpipe.

The tank

The hose fittings and valves

Hardline and fittings

great stuff Dan, any plans to measure the vacuum that is pulled from the exhaust

great stuff Dan, any plans to measure the vacuum that is pulled from the exhaust

Oh yes.....there's an 1/8" NPT port on the side of the tank for a gauge and a little barb on the back to connect to my (now redundant) stock MAP sensor for logging That said, Ryan seems to have taken my map sensor and plug after swapping to the GM sensor....I'll need that back from Mr Griffiths

I have a few ideas for limiting the vacuum as I'm a little concerned that this setup will create too much....as soon as I can modify this tank mount and bend the hard lines into shape I will get everything fitted and report back.

dont know if you have it Dan but A.Graham Bells book forced induction performance tuning has a good section on this subject with some recomendations on desirable vacuum levels, i can see the obvious gains to be had at peak power but the only doubt i have with this type of set up is the lack of low speed scavenging effect which is so beneficial when using manifold vacuum, any thoughts on this

dont know if you have it Dan but A.Graham Bells book forced induction performance tuning has a good section on this subject with some recomendations on desirable vacuum levels, i can see the obvious gains to be had at peak power but the only doubt i have with this type of set up is the lack of low speed scavenging effect which is so beneficial when using manifold vacuum, any thoughts on this

Yes I do have it Paul - it's a nice book with a lot of useful stuff covered...not just the usual babble. In the section on breather kit and dry sump lubrication it states:

"....my recommendation is not to exceed depressions of 10-12in for street engines." and also says "Street engines routinely show a 3-4% hp rise at 10-12in vacuum...." That's potentially another 17-23bhp by my calculations.....in reality any gain at all would be nice

I have an inbuilt mechanical valve that'll limit my vacuum to approx 1.5psi more than the vacuum seen in the inlet to the turbo.....so basically, not very much. Once I've spent some time getting a few logs and seeing how much vacuum the whole setup is capable of pulling (without the valve in place) I will get a better limiter fitted - probably a stiffer spring in the same one way valve.

What are your concerns about vacuum with this setup? Are you thinking there won't be enough at low revs and idle? My concerns are limiting the vacuum to sensible level but I'm sure I can get around that easy enough with a little experimentation.

I have it all fitted now (car still on axle stands in the garage though) so I have only been able to see what happens when idling....there is definite vacuum but I can't find the gauge so I cannot tell you how much...yet! I do have a video of a piece of paper getting sucked onto a port on the breather tank when idling but no way to upload it.

This is where the slash cut pipes enter the midpipe.

This is where both feeds from the cam covers enter the tank.

These are the dash 10 outlets to the one way, anti backfire valves

I don't have all the fitted pics with me now but I will post them up tomorrow. Bending, shaping and routing the hardpipes to the midpipe was one of those annoyingly tricky and time consuming jobs.

Great stuff Dan,

Just reading the above, I didn't realise there was any performance gains had in connecting the catch tank to a vaccum source, unless I've totally misread

Hi Dan, I used a Morroso system like this for a while (recommended by Dimmitri) but found it produced blue smoke from the exhaust on >7k overrun. Never measured the vacuum but decided to switch the slash cut feed to turbo inlet (used a much larger slashcut) and that seems to work well. I use a catchcan stuffed with wire wool to condense the oil, and see totally dry ic pipework.